Jewish Vengeance nearing the end and after World War 2

[Skm1091]

That's a point that's been debated since the end of the war. Some people maintain that there was no possible way anyone over (what ever age the individual thinks awareness begins) not knew the holocaust was happening. These are the people that push the "national guilt" thing. Others say that the Nazi's took extraordinary measures to prevent the every man from knowing what was happening, and there is some documentation to give weak evidence of this. Yet others claim that how much someone would have known, depended on the assigned job, and the Nazis set up most tasks so those performing them would have no way of knowing the whole picture.

The Jews who did serve in the SS were most likely trying to save their skins. Cause you have to admit this is a pretty stupid and at the same time a pretty smart move. It's stupid because they were going into the lions den, but at the same time it was smart because that would very last place they would ever expect to find a Jew.

[dallen68]

The Jews who did serve in the SS were most likely trying to save their skins. Cause you have to admit this is a pretty stupid and at the same time a pretty smart move. It's stupid because they were going into the lions den, but at the same time it was smart because that would very last place they would ever expect to find a Jew.

It kind of makes sense, though, if you can pass for a German and you can get someone to forge papers for you...why not? If you have the chance, watch (or read) Europa, Europa.

Also, I have heard anecdotes about African Americans that could pass as whites doing the same thing during the time between the civil war and the civil rights era. (Except, of course, the stakes weren't quite as high... or maybe they were.)

[Skm1091]

Seen the movie. Good Movie

[evensgrey]

It kind of makes sense, though, if you can pass for a German and you can get someone to forge papers for you...why not? If you have the chance, watch (or read) Europa, Europa.

Also, I have heard anecdotes about African Americans that could pass as whites doing the same thing during the time between the civil war and the civil rights era. (Except, of course, the stakes weren't quite as high... or maybe they were.)

It depends on the circumstances.  In some places and at some times, you bet your ass the stakes were just as high.  The difference is there wasn't an official state policy of extermination.

[Skm1091]

More on the subject of jews in the german military.

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[Ibrahim90]

I don't get how you figure that. The oath for many was sworn under duress. Who feels honor bound to follow an oath they were forced to make?

Oskar Schindler swore the same oath. So did Claus von Stauffenberg.

who said I figure that? He likely does, or at least, that's how he'd justify doing anything for the war (assuming that he wasn't secretly "disloyal"): otherwise he wouldn't be doing his thing. And in real life most officers were like that--even if they didn't like it and were coerced into it. It didn't help that it was actually the Generals' idea to even have them read the oath--a way of currying favor with Hitler over the SA, and to keep their independence. Such a situation creates people who are willing to ignore the truth, to make them feel better: like people who support Obama. Alternately, they see the truth, and a horrified, but do nothing, for fear over their own careers and lives.

It took people with particularly strong moral convictions to not abide by the oath, or keep silent: people like von Stauffenberg, Schindler, or Heinz Drossel, or that Plagge guy. (or, in Hogan's heroes, Corporal Klink)

There is a series of documentaries I love to recommend on the subject: here's the first part--there are five parts in total (including one on resistance): they go into depth on what made the Officers tick: it's pretty complex, with some doing the right thing for the right reason, others spineless lackeys.

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@ dallen68: you're right, but Schultz is a conscript with a clear motive to screw up things: Klink isn't--quite the opposite, as far as one can tell.

@Gumba Masta: LOL--good one!

[MrBogosity]

who said I figure that? He likely does, or at least, that's how he'd justify doing anything for the war (assuming that he wasn't secretly "disloyal")

It might be an after-the-fact justification, but it wouldn't be his motivation as you implied.

[Ibrahim90]

It might be an after-the-fact justification, but it wouldn't be his motivation as you implied.

perhaps that may be.