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Economic incentives don't work with mental tasks?

Started by Travis Retriever, June 27, 2010, 08:54:41 PM

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June 27, 2010, 08:54:41 PM
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"When the mob and the press and the whole world tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth, and tell the whole world—'No. You move.'"
-Captain America, Amazing Spider-Man 537
June 27, 2010, 09:42:57 PM #1
I think this is one more example of a huge misconception that just about everybody has: that profit is only about money. No, profit is about reward, which COULD be money, but could also be things like the intellectual fulfillment he mentioned. Those people value that more than money. If you're going to offer me a job and pay me in horse manure, I'm probably not going to be that motivated.

I really don't understand the bit around 4:00. So, wait, the higher performers performed the lowest? Then they're not the higher performers, are they? How do they determine who to put on that top step, to then say they scored the lowest? Any rational setup would have these lowest performers getting the lowest reward.
June 27, 2010, 09:45:48 PM #2
Quote from: MrBogosity on June 27, 2010, 09:42:57 PMI think this is one more example of a huge misconception that just about everybody has: that profit is only about money. No, profit is about reward, which COULD be money, but could also be things like the intellectual fulfillment he mentioned. Those people value that more than money. If you're going to offer me a job and pay me in horse manure, I'm probably not going to be that motivated.
Glad I'm not the only person who noticed that. :)
"When the mob and the press and the whole world tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth, and tell the whole world—'No. You move.'"
-Captain America, Amazing Spider-Man 537
June 27, 2010, 09:48:16 PM #3
Quote from: MrBogosity on June 27, 2010, 09:42:57 PMI really don't understand the bit around 4:00. So, wait, the higher performers performed the lowest? Then they're not the higher performers, are they? How do they determine who to put on that top step, to then say they scored the lowest? Any rational setup would have these lowest performers getting the lowest reward.
That's a very good point. I didn't notice that.
I think they meant that they were varying pay but controlling for the other variables, to see how it affected performance, they probably should have been clearer though.
"When the mob and the press and the whole world tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth, and tell the whole world—'No. You move.'"
-Captain America, Amazing Spider-Man 537
June 28, 2010, 01:22:55 PM #4 Last Edit: June 28, 2010, 01:33:37 PM by VectorM
That Steve Jobs quote is what hit the nail for me. Do they seriously believe his bullshit? They seriously use Steve Jobs as an example of working without the money motive? The guy that doesn't support flash in his iPad, making it impossible to use like half of the web sites out there, forcing you to go and buy apps for his stupid piece of junk!?!? "FUCK, can't play Robot Unicorn, no flash support. Guess now i have to go to the app store...". I mean, SERIOUSLY. That video was retarded.

And what is also retarded, is that stupid "21st century enlightenment" bullshit they have on their channel. Yeah, really enlightening, giving us reworded version of old theories. The anti-profit shtick has been going around for decades, yet now these assholes act as if they have discovered that the Sun doesn't revolve around the Earth. Laughable.
June 28, 2010, 01:31:39 PM #5
Quote from: VectorM on June 28, 2010, 01:22:55 PMThat Steve Jobs quote is what hit the nail for me. Do they seriously believe his bullshit? They seriously use Steve Jobs as an example of working without the money motive? The guy that doesn't support flash in his iPad, making it impossible to use like half of the web sites out there, forcing you to go and buy apps for his stupid piece of junk!?!? "FUCK, can't play Robot Unicorn, no flash support. Guess now i have to go to the app store...". I mean, SERIOUSLY. That video was retarded.

And what is also retarded, is that stupid "21st century enlightenment" bullshit they have on their channel. Yeah, really enlightening, giving us reworded version of old theories. The anti-profit shtick has been going around for decades, yet now these assholes act as if they have discovered that the Sun doesn't revolve around the sun. Laughable.
Reminds me of this post I made to the video's comment section:
"3:01 - Well, considering that the Federal Reserve (central bank) is the 5th Plank of the Communist Manifesto, I'd say that qualifies as at least semi-leftist.
Of course, that would be an argument from origin and is more or less irrelevant, especially given the real world examples of Linux and Wikipedia. "

Of course it's not like there is no way they make money either.
Haven't they ever heard of ad revenue, or donations?
"When the mob and the press and the whole world tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth, and tell the whole world—'No. You move.'"
-Captain America, Amazing Spider-Man 537
June 29, 2010, 12:57:33 AM #6
Quote from: MrBogosity on June 27, 2010, 09:42:57 PMI really don't understand the bit around 4:00. So, wait, the higher performers performed the lowest? Then they're not the higher performers, are they? How do they determine who to put on that top step, to then say they scored the lowest? Any rational setup would have these lowest performers getting the lowest reward.
"the higher performers are the ones who have the lowest gain accordingo to the reward. Extrinsic motivators like money dont work for cognitive tasks. The more you pay the less they perform (net gain). Yes they are still the top performers, but the more you reward it, the less they improve."--from someone on the video.
"When the mob and the press and the whole world tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth, and tell the whole world—'No. You move.'"
-Captain America, Amazing Spider-Man 537
June 29, 2010, 04:51:52 AM #7
Quote from: surhotchaperchlorome on June 29, 2010, 12:57:33 AM
"the higher performers are the ones who have the lowest gain accordingo to the reward. Extrinsic motivators like money dont work for cognitive tasks. The more you pay the less they perform (net gain). Yes they are still the top performers, but the more you reward it, the less they improve."--from someone on the video.

Am I just stupid, because I am still confused about this.
June 29, 2010, 06:48:44 AM #8
Quote from: VectorM on June 29, 2010, 04:51:52 AM
Am I just stupid, because I am still confused about this.

Don't feel bad; so am I.
July 01, 2010, 09:45:40 AM #9
So this guy thinks money is the only economic incentive?  Well if that's the case I guess myself and every other person who ever went into an academic or teaching field are certifiably insane.  After all it's not like the freedom to be able to choose your own research topics, to be able to teach people about your passion, to be able to publish original work and expand human knowledge (with academic presses that don't pay squat no less) and the ability to travel the world continually learning and expanding your mind could be in any way considered an incentive could it?

We've known about this for quite some time.  It's not the ecnoomists who should be surprised by this, it's idiot management grads who think that everything in life is about bonuses.
July 01, 2010, 10:22:26 AM #10
Quote from: AHPMB on July 01, 2010, 09:45:40 AM
So this guy thinks money is the only economic incentive?  Well if that's the case I guess myself and every other person who ever went into an academic or teaching field are certifiably insane.

Not to mention anyone who starts his own business, especially restaurants. I wonder, in the minds of people like the makers of this video, why they think people do that? There are lots more effective ways to make money.

"After all it's not like the freedom to be able to choose your own research topics, to be able to teach people about your passion, to be able to publish original work and expand human knowledge (with academic presses that don't pay squat no less) and the ability to travel the world continually learning and expanding your mind could be in any way considered an incentive could it?"

The thing they're missing is, people do NOT desire money--they desire what they can DO with the money. It's all about being able to do things they like. So it's perfectly rational, then, for someone to switch jobs and get less pay for doing something they love to do.

QuoteWe've known about this for quite some time.  It's not the ecnoomists who should be surprised by this, it's idiot management grads who think that everything in life is about bonuses.

Maybe that's it--they've got MBAs. That can be quite a disability...
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