What made you become libertarian?

[Lord T Hawkeye]

Since it seems more libertarians are made rather than born, I've been wondering what it was that made you give up the traditional views and embrace the ideas we do now.

As for me, up to adulthood, I used to cheer on government programs to help society, to fix the environment, to make sure we all had medical care and all the rest of it.  It seemed logical enough, government is powerful and so they were best equipped to make it all so.  I even cheered on Micheal Moore for a time which I'm rather embarrassed to admit now.

So where did it all start?  I became disillusioned with Micheal Moore when he was going on his "Bush caused hurricane Katrina" kick.  (yes I know government was at least partially responsible but not in the way that the conspiracy nuts think)  And a video I saw called "6 Degrees from Truth" made me realize he wasn't simply misguided or misinformed.  He was an outright liar.  Wasn't a fun thing to come to grips with.

I had sometimes entertained the idea that some government programs were failing to consider all sides of the argument but I think I have to say Penn and Teller were the ones that really started me down the path.  I loved their Bullshit episode about Peta and sought to see more.  The dirty secrets about the endangered species act shocked me.  I initially scoffed the one against the war on drugs but when I thought about it more carefully, I realized I really had nothing to argue against it.  I still didn't like drug use but I understood that it didn't matter what I personally thought about it.

It was a painful transition though.  It meant I had to give up a lot of beliefs that were comforting but I had to accept that they were myths and it was dangerous and self destructive to believe in nonsense.

So what was your transition like?

[Travis Retriever]

Up until about a year to a year and a half ago, I was completely statist (though leaning left with social freedom).
Though even before I became Libertarian, I had a sneaking suspicion that maybe I was wrong.  I was feeling like I was being protected by government and that if the services it provided were gone, I didn't know what else I would do.

It was doing this time I was into TheAmazingAtheist (before he become so anti-Libertarian and when he was still one himself).
It was actually his point about drug use and whether or not people own their own bodies and their own minds that showed me just how draconian drug laws were, and it started to soften me up on that.  He also convinced me that business owners should have the right to serve who they want; if they want to deny service to blacks, or whomever, they should be able to:  it's that person's business.
It was also around this time (sort of) that I was taking Freshman economics at my college.  He showed us why minimum wage laws are bogus (though not as good as Shane), for example, etc.  He and my English teacher pretty much seemed to believe that pure communsim = bad, pure capitalism = bad, the middle ground = good.  It was this mentality that was my point in arguing with Shane on his video about the Financial Market collapse a few months ago.  Finally, after seeing the video from the afq2007 channel showing why Keynesianism is stupid (essentially showing it to be a broken window fallacy), I realized that I had been had, and that Shane was right, or at least onto something.  Then I saw the point about Capitalism NOT causing the problem from afq2007 with Peter Wallison, and knew Shane was right.  Eventually I did see a video showing Peter Schiff and Ron Paul predicting what was wrong, though I already had accepted Capitalism at that point, courtesy of Shane's other videos.

So then I began to try and get more into Libertarianism via books and comments on youtube; in particular debating, or rather, refuting, Cultists of the Omnipotent State.

[MrBogosity]

For me, it's hard to say. I think I was born an individualist, which gets you most of the way there. Reading The Moon is a Harsh Mistress did a lot of it. I slowly eroded away the misconceptions I had about government until Harry Browne came along and demolished everything I had left.

[FSBlueApocalypse]

A mixture of things

1. Majoring in economics and listening to my professors, most of which were hard core capitalists
2. Working at a defense firm that helped low income people. They took cases like DUIs, traffic citations by security cameras, etc. It made me realize what kind of totalitarian state we were slowing slipping into and why this idea of "If you're innocent, you have nothing to hide" is BS.
3. Working for the DNC during the 2004 campaign. Although it didn't make me a libertarian, it certainly turned me off the Democrats.
I'm sure there are other reasons that I can't think of right now.

[enthalpay]

I can tell you how I first became a libertarian and why I later abandoned libertarianism.

Basically pre-libertarian, I was left wing on virtually every issue. I had heard of libertarianism but I didn't really know what it was; there were a lot of political philosophies out there so I couldn't research them all. The people with whom I had the most disagreements were the Rightwing conservatives. I would read Conservapedia and get very frustrated.

I became a libertarian after I took economics at high school, which was a subject I previously knew nothing about. I learnt about the positive effects of market forces like the benefits of trade and other things which I hadn't considered before. I had actually read about things like that on conservative websites. I was tempted to convert to conservativism, but I couldn't do it because I still disagreed with them on social issues. I did wonder if there was a political philosophy which was liberal on social issues and conservative on economic issues, and it didn't take long for me to discover libertarianism. I actually became quite a vocal libertarian at school after that. I also gained a keen interest in economics and I would do more research on the topic on the Internet, although I would always do my research through the lens of libertarianism.

I can pinpoint the exact thing which caused me to start doubting libertarianism: It was firstly when I discovered that the Austrian school of economics was a heterodox school of economics, and later when I found out that the Keynesian school of economics was the dominant school of macroeconomic thought. I guess this is why I always bring this fact up. I knew about the various schools of economics but I didn't really consider which one was the mainstream; I guess I was under the impression that they were all considered serious competitors. Being a libertarian, I was obviously tempted by the Austrian school. I should have been more critical of my beliefs. It took the fact that it was outside of the mainstream to cause me to really be skeptical about the issue. I actually learnt quite a valuable lesson then and I appreciate the importance of skepticism more now than I did then.

Although I abandoned libertarianism, I did not return to the political views I held before I became a libertarian. Most of my friends will tell you that I am a right wing conservative, but really I reject any label (and I don't think it's really true anyway). I think it's best to look at each issue on a case by case basis. My friends tend to be left wing, so them calling me a conservative tells me that I'm probably a moderate of some kind.

[Goaticus]

I can pinpoint the exact thing which caused me to start doubting libertarianism: It was firstly when I discovered that the Austrian school of economics was a heterodox school of economics, and later when I found out that the Keynesian school of economics was the dominant school of macroeconomic thought.

This is the easiest way to tell someone has never taken an Economics class in their life. Pretending Macro-Economics is nothing but Keynes Vs. Austrian and that one of them is settled orthodoxy to be accepted without argument when the two dominant schools are actually Neo-Classical and Chicago.

I suspect this "heterodox" nonsense comes straight from the only reading you've done on the subject since real Economists never use it as a pejorative and don't attempt to criticize a school or theory simply by saying something is "heterodox".

[enthalpay]

To clarify, I did not abandon the Austrian school because it was heterodox; it was just the fact that it was heterodox which caused me to be more inquisitive and impartial when looking at the evidence.

[Goaticus]

I think it's best to look at each issue on a case by case basis. My friends tend to be left wing, so them calling me a conservative tells me that I'm probably a moderate of some kind.

Fallacy of false dichotomy used to make a non-existent continuum. Especially since Libertarians are called Liberals all the time.

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Being a libertarian, I was obviously tempted by the Austrian school.

I suspect you claiming you were a Libertarian is a lot like VenomfangX claiming he was an Atheist. Especially since you don't have to be part of the Austrian School to be a Libertarian. Most Economists don't even consider themselves part of a single school. This isn't Los Angeles in 1991 where you are either a Crip or a Blood.

[Goaticus]

To clarify, I did not abandon the Austrian school because it was heterodox; it was just the fact that it was heterodox which caused me to be more inquisitive and impartial when looking at the evidence.

You didn't abandon either school because you know nothing about either school. Kind of like when a four year old stops dressing up like a police officer and starts dressing up like a pirate that doesn't mean they left the police force.

[enthalpay]

"you don't have to be part of the Austrian School to be a Libertarian"
True, and I've made that point in the past. However, the reason why I was a libertarian was because I thought being so would be the best from a public policy perspective, and I was basing that belief on the Austrian school.

[enthalpay]

That was just what started it, by the way. I could spend a very long time explaining all the things I observed after that which caused me to reject libertarianism.

[Goaticus]

True, and I've made that point in the past.

When you claimed Libertarians were wrong because Austrian Economics is "Heterodox". Notice they don't even use the word unorthodox.

However, the reason why I was a libertarian was because I thought being so would be the best from a public policy perspective

Which still doesn't require you to be part of the Austrian School of Economics.

[Goaticus]

 

I could spend a very long time explaining all the things I observed after that which caused me to reject libertarianism.

And Kent Hovind could prove the Earth is 6,000 years old, but never gets around to it. Instead you base your arguments on the fact that you don't know what Heterodox means and attacking a position Libertarians don't hold.

[R.E.H.W.R.]

Me? Watching the anti-war movement suddenly disappear after Obama was elected.

[Ibrahim90]

well, I can't really point out a specific time when I became a libertarian, or exactly how and what.

but certainly I started to change from my previously nebulous (though liberal leaning) persuasion, back in the 2008 presidential nomination and election events and the related debates. As it happened, one of the debates in the nomination debates (Republican party) had Ron Paul in it, and I remember his language was direct, novel, and very much counterintuitive. This is especially for a recent arrival from the Arab World: an American politician who is against foreign aid, military bases, and wants a small government? wtf? His logic seemed intuitive enough, and I liked what I saw. but I didn't really become a Libertarian at that point. Part of the reason was that I did not know about 3rd parties, or any other ideology other than the 2 main ones (Ron Paul was viewed as some sort of conservative), so when Paul lost out, I lost interest in the ideology (or rather, forgot it). until that is, I ran into Shanedk's videos. I liked what I saw: it made sense, and reading on some of the books and articles he linked, things made more and more sense: a political ideology that in many ways, is surprisingly even handed. these led me to more works, which helped fill in the missing pieces, and these led to more.

so eventually, by 2010, I became more or less as libertarian as I am now..