She's Lost (Price) Control (from Fail Quotes)

[MrBogosity]

1) Rationing. (We did it because of WAR. War seems to justify everything! How very statist!)

Actually, it was because of the price controls government put on to cover the inflation caused by them printing money to go to war.

[evensgrey]

Actually, it was because of the price controls government put on to cover the inflation caused by them printing money to go to war.

Printing money and buying up already-scarce commodities where scarcity was the result of government-imposed production limits (at least in the case of WWII).

[dallen68]

Printing money and buying up already-scarce commodities where scarcity was the result of government-imposed production limits (at least in the case of WWII).

That's funny in a way, because usually when production is discussed in connection with WWII; normally, the lesson is about how American industry ramped up production to meet the demands of war. Usually, this is mixed with some kind of commentary about how 'miraculous' said ramping up was thought to be.

On the other hand, it is now believed that government rationing did little to nothing for the war effort.

[MrBogosity]

That's funny in a way, because usually when production is discussed in connection with WWII; normally, the lesson is about how American industry ramped up production to meet the demands of war. Usually, this is mixed with some kind of commentary about how 'miraculous' said ramping up was thought to be.

On the other hand, it is now believed that government rationing did little to nothing for the war effort.

They fell victim to the Zero Sum Fallacy: they thought that in order to have the productive capacity to make bombs and planes for the war effort, they had to stop people from producing other things.

[dallen68]

They fell victim to the Zero Sum Fallacy: they thought that in order to have the productive capacity to make bombs and planes for the war effort, they had to stop people from producing other things.

My understanding is that the distribution channels, as opposed to the production channels, were interfered with. For example, if the Du Pont corporation had been allowed to sell its Nylon and Teflon products as usual, the production cost of these products would have decreased, thus allowing more Nylon and Teflon to be produced, and then there wouldn't have been a shortage of these items.

[MrBogosity]

My understanding is that the distribution channels, as opposed to the production channels, were interfered with. For example, if the Du Pont corporation had been allowed to sell its Nylon and Teflon products as usual, the production cost of these products would have decreased, thus allowing more Nylon and Teflon to be produced, and then there wouldn't have been a shortage of these items.

Sure, but the main problem was the price caps. Ordinarily a shortage just means the price goes through the roof (and with most items it did). But the only way to manage price caps on meat, butter, etc. is to ration it. There's no other way.

It's just like what we've seen many times in UHC countries: they try so desperately to keep the price down, but since no one has an incentive to economize they have to come up with things like waiting lists, lotteries, and bizarre forms of triage (Hmmm, do you REALLY need an ambulance? Let's think about that...) to deal with the inevitable shortages.

[Travis Retriever]

Sure, but the main problem was the price caps. Ordinarily a shortage just means the price goes through the roof (and with most items it did). But the only way to manage price caps on meat, butter, etc. is to ration it. There's no other way.

It's just like what we've seen many times in UHC countries: they try so desperately to keep the price down, but since no one has an incentive to economize they have to come up with things like waiting lists, lotteries, and bizarre forms of triage (Hmmm, do you REALLY need an ambulance? Let's think about that...) to deal with the inevitable shortages.

Sounds like the rolling blackouts.  Something tells me they *aren't* caused by "de-regulation of the utility companies"...

[tnu]

Uh guys I know i'm being "that guy" again but this looks like it's going to go on for a while? should we split it toanother topic?

[MrBogosity]

Sounds like the rolling blackouts.  Something tells me they *aren't* caused by "de-regulation of the utility companies"...

Nope. It's because California put in all sorts of regulations making it very difficult to build new power plants, and put price caps on the sale of power to the consumer. No economist worth his salt would have predicted any other result.

[Skm1091]

Nope. It's because California put in all sorts of regulations making it very difficult to build new power plants, and put price caps on the sale of power to the consumer. No economist worth his salt would have predicted any other result.

Is this also the reason why our internet service is sucky and expensive? Because I live in California in (Los Angeles County) and our internet sometimes goes offline and says that I can't access it all of a sudden, and sometimes won't come back online for days, even though it was running just fine minutes prior.

[dallen68]

Is this also the reason why our internet service is sucky and expensive? Because I live in California in (Los Angeles County) and our internet sometimes goes offline and says that I can't access it all of a sudden, and sometimes won't come back online for days, even though it was running just fine minutes prior.

Does your plan say anything about data caps or contain the phrase "normal household use" anywhere in the subscriber agreement? Either way, if it does, it means your ISP decided you've exceeded your allotted amount. Also, "normal household use", I've discovered, isn't what I consider nhu (all day on netflix and D&D)- it's 1gb per day. (Or at least if you have hughesnet, it is; thank god I don't have that anymore)

[MrBogosity]

Does your plan say anything about data caps or contain the phrase "normal household use" anywhere in the subscriber agreement? Either way, if it does, it means your ISP decided you've exceeded your allotted amount. Also, "normal household use", I've discovered, isn't what I consider nhu (all day on netflix and D&D)- it's 1gb per day. (Or at least if you have hughesnet, it is; thank god I don't have that anymore)

Yeah, a lot of 'em you'll run over if you watch 2 hours of Netflix a day. You can tell that a) they're monopolies and b) video content providers who compete with Netflix.

[evensgrey]

My understanding is that the distribution channels, as opposed to the production channels, were interfered with. For example, if the Du Pont corporation had been allowed to sell its Nylon and Teflon products as usual, the production cost of these products would have decreased, thus allowing more Nylon and Teflon to be produced, and then there wouldn't have been a shortage of these items.

It's very hard for governments (especially governments headed by someone as almightily incompetent at planning and analysis as FDR was) to change their means of manipulation in a hurry, especially when they're panicking because they just got smacked by the expected enemy in a completely unexpected way. The US government had been stifling production since 1933, and wasn't about the kick the habit of production manipulation when it looked so handy a way to produce war materials.