Anyone who's read Fountain Head wanna buzz in on this one?

[Lord T Hawkeye]

Claimed by a fellow on DA

"? what? hold on there. I'm just trying to wrap my head around how it's not feminist to call out internalized misogynists. If a Black man suggesting black people should go back to slavery a racist, likewise, you'd call a woman saying a woman's place is in the kitchen a misogynist. Feminists aren't necessarily socialists, but a lot of them are socialists for the same reason a lot of civil rights leaders in the 60's were socialists, the promotion of equal beginnings and rights. Ayn Rand had a serious case of Internalized Misogyny, saying shit like this "If she says no, it's just for show, and a real man would ignore what she says and do what she wants." and why the main character got raped in The Fountain head, but it is perfectly okay because he is a superior capitalist hero."

When I said "citation or she didn't say it", he responded with...

"you mean like this, in the fountain head, that already posted? "If she says no, it's just for show, and a real man would ignore what she says and do what she wants.""

I already pointed out that this quote was by a fictional character and thus does not neccessarily reflect the views of the author but he was having none of it.

Has anyone read Fountain Head because I'm REALLY picking up the stench of misquoting here?

[MrBogosity]

I sloughed my way though about three chapters, that was as far as I made it. God, Rand was a terrible writer...

[evensgrey]

I managed to read my way through the whole thing (and Atlas Shrugged, as well), and Shane is right, Rand was (by the standards we usually use in English novels, anyway) a lousy writer.  (She might be considered rather good in some other language's novel traditions, I understand that Russian novels are usually like hers.)

In any case, the heroine is not, in fact, raped.  We know that, by the time Roark gets around to deciding he wants to have sex with her, she does want to have sex with him as well.  It is also the case that he didn't actually ask, and didn't actually care what her answer would have been anyway.  This is not necessarily quite as bad as it sounds today.  Keep in mind she was writing this in the 1940's, and attitudes about men who didn't ask and woman who said yes were quite different.  (Specifically, there was much less concern about men not asking, and women who said yes tended to be subject to severe social stigma.)

[MrBogosity]

I understand that Russian novels are usually like [Ayn Rand's].

Remind me never to read Tolstoy.

[evensgrey]

Remind me never to read Tolstoy.

Could be worse.  There's a sort of 'model' Soviet-era novel about casting a sewer pipe.

[Ibrahim90]

Remind me never to read Tolstoy.

OK, that one is not that bad. War and Peace certainly wasn't. at least IMHO.