Surprisingly, Intheendiwasright is overjoyed. He's confident this is just going to further kill people's faith in the state. Somehow, I'm not sure it'll be that easy.
When I saw his video, I thought the same thing, though I was reminded of the song Take a Bow, By MUSE.
"Oh, our freedom's consuming itself
What we've become
Is contrary to what we want
Take a bow"
Well, here's my take on what will happen next.
The 24+ states who are challenging this bill will at least get the mandatory purchase of insurance struck down. When that happens, insurance companies will not have the financial means to stay financially viable and will start to colapse. When that happens, my father thinks their will be a big push for single payer, as the democrats will try to blame the free market for the collapse.
I, on the other hand, think a different scenario will take place.
I expect the Republicans to have a major victory next election, and when the insurance companies start to buckle under the pressure, Obama will have no choice but to allow the republicans to roll back the most damaging parts of this bill, though I expect him to do so kicking and screaming. I predict that preexisting condition restrictions will remain banned by popular demand, however, restrictions on coverage ratios will be eliminated so people can once again buy affordable high deductible insurance for catastrophic coverage. This will make HSAs look very attractive to employers, insurance companies and to the self insured alike, so I also predict that the HSA will gain popularity. That's assuming, of course, that the Republicans can ease the restrictions this bill supposedly puts on HSAs. In all honesty, I think the Democrats have made one of their biggest political blunders in their history and will pay for it dearly.
Quote from: Lord T Hawkeye on March 22, 2010, 02:20:47 AM
Surprisingly, Intheendiwasright is overjoyed. He's confident this is just going to further kill people's faith in the state. Somehow, I'm not sure it'll be that easy.
Nah, they'll find a way to blame the free market, AGAIN...
The bill is so complicated and its time tables so drawn out that the average American will have no idea what the bill is actually doing. I wouldn't be surprised if Obama claimed that the health bill brought the midwestern drought to an end by the time the election cycle rolls around.
[yt]DdPsgAH4gAo[/yt]
And with it, my confidence in the economy has gone away...
Quote from: surhotchaperchlorome on March 22, 2010, 12:02:36 PM
And with it, my confidence in the economy has gone away...
Yeah, just look at that hair... Phew, scareee.
Quote from: AHPMB on March 22, 2010, 08:18:41 AM
The bill is so complicated and its time tables so drawn out that the average American will have no idea what the bill is actually doing. I wouldn't be surprised if Obama claimed that the health bill brought the midwestern drought to an end by the time the election cycle rolls around.
How long it will take to implement this bill fully is what gives me at least some hope. If it takes ten years to get it all done, then maybe if Obama turns into a one term president (we all hope) we can get the unimplemented parts rolled back so they are essentially stillborn. Nobody is going to protest an entitlement that's taken away before it is given to them. Most people only care about what's right in front of them.
I have a friend who's one of those tragic cases of being unable to get insurance due to pre-existing conditions. Would it be a good idea for him to take advantage of the mandates forbidding insurance to deny people with pre-existing conditions now before the whole thing collapses or what should he do?
Quote from: Lord T Hawkeye on March 22, 2010, 05:54:02 PM
I have a friend who's one of those tragic cases of being unable to get insurance due to pre-existing conditions. Would it be a good idea for him to take advantage of the mandates forbidding insurance to deny people with pre-existing conditions now before the whole thing collapses or what should he do?
My advice is to get in while you can. If pre-existing bans are ruled unconstitutional because the entire law is thrown out, then this could be an opportunity to get grandfathered in. To me, it seems like a no-brainer.
Oh so socialist healthcare is bad but you might as well get some while it's hot?
We have a word for people like you, you Hippopotamus!
Quote from: Gumba Masta on March 24, 2010, 01:21:22 PM
Oh so socialist healthcare is bad but you might as well get some while it's hot?
We have a word for people like you, you Hippopotamus!
Nothing wrong with adapting to your situation as it is if you are powerless to changes it for the moment. I'm a capitalist first, so I expect everybody to take every advantage they can as individuals, so nothing wrong with that. Am I a hypocrite for using public roads even though I think a private system would be better? Am I a hypocrite for sending my child to public school even though I think a private voucher system wold be better? Quite the contrary, I would not be said hypocrite. I'd just be a man utilizing his situation to its fullest.
What I'm against is the state's power to give people special advantages over others, which is what the healthcare bill does. That's totally different then individuals taking advantage of the bill, however.
Oh, so you would want to take away an individual's means to attain happines by getting rid of that bill?
Why don't you just pack up your rethorics and red spraycans and go back to moscow, you pinko!
Quote from: Gumba Masta on April 02, 2010, 08:10:12 AM
Oh, so you would want to take away an individual's means to attain happines by getting rid of that bill?
Why don't you just pack up your rethorics and red spraycans and go back to moscow, you pinko!
Forgive me, but you are starting to sound a little off balance. Your question and second sentence appear to be contradictory to one another. Yes, I would like for the healthcare bill to die, even if it means that it would help people become happier since happiness is a personal responsibility, not a government responsibility. You agree, yes? Why, then, would you call me a communist? Communism is putting everything in a pot and distributing according to everybody's needs. That's not at all what I said, and it's a bit dishonest for you to imply such. I'm 100% for the free market, but if I'm given an opportunity that I didn't ask for, I'm going to take it so I can stay competitive. That isn't Communism, that is financial advice.
Why would you blame me for taking advantage of something offered to me? By your logic, using a public school is as much communist as "free" healthcare, and I would agree with you, but in order to meet your standards of not being a hypocrite, I'd have to completely unplug myself from "the grid". It's even become difficult to buy food without at least some ingredients subsidized with corn! So every time I drink a Coke or Pepsi made with subsidized high fructose corn syrup, I'm being a communist, right? I mean, Coke even comes in a red can! Give me a break!
Look, I'm not going to sit here and justify these subsidies, just because I'm using them. I mean, they penetrate every area of our economy, and are completely unavoidable. That's how big the beast has gotten.
What would I say if I'm going to be taxed to death anyway? I may as well use these services in order to cut my losses, and if I have a choice and don't like my service, I'll go with a private company. I'm not going to go with a more expensive option for myself just for the sake of principle. To do otherwise would be bad business. I'll only go with a more expensive option if I'm getting value that the government won't provide. For example, I hate the poor service at the post office, so I use UPS and FedEx, even though they cost more. The private shipping companies damage my packages less often then the post office does, so the extra cost is worth it. Even though we don't like our economic system, we use it anyway because its the only system we've been allowed to use. That's why we work to change the political landscape so that government no longer has the power to help out its cronies.
Now what exactly was your problem with me, Gumba Masta?
What? Who are you?
This is not my house? Where is my Meals on Wheels?
Quote from: Ex_Nihil0 on April 02, 2010, 02:47:40 PM
Forgive me, but you are starting to sound a little off balance. Your question and second sentence appear to be contradictory to one another. Yes, I would like for the healthcare bill to die, even if it means that it would help people become happier since happiness is a personal responsibility, not a government responsibility. You agree, yes? Why, then, would you call me a communist? Communism is putting everything in a pot and distributing according to everybody's needs. That's not at all what I said, and it's a bit dishonest for you to imply such. I'm 100% for the free market, but if I'm given an opportunity that I didn't ask for, I'm going to take it so I can stay competitive. That isn't Communism, that is financial advice.
Why would you blame me for taking advantage of something offered to me? By your logic, using a public school is as much communist as "free" healthcare, and I would agree with you, but in order to meet your standards of not being a hypocrite, I'd have to completely unplug myself from "the grid". It's even become difficult to buy food without at least some ingredients subsidized with corn! So every time I drink a Coke or Pepsi made with subsidized high fructose corn syrup, I'm being a communist, right? I mean, Coke even comes in a red can! Give me a break!
Look, I'm not going to sit here and justify these subsidies, just because I'm using them. I mean, they penetrate every area of our economy, and are completely unavoidable. That's how big the beast has gotten.
What would I say if I'm going to be taxed to death anyway? I may as well use these services in order to cut my losses, and if I have a choice and don't like my service, I'll go with a private company. I'm not going to go with a more expensive option for myself just for the sake of principle. To do otherwise would be bad business. I'll only go with a more expensive option if I'm getting value that the government won't provide. For example, I hate the poor service at the post office, so I use UPS and FedEx, even though they cost more. The private shipping companies damage my packages less often then the post office does, so the extra cost is worth it. Even though we don't like our economic system, we use it anyway because its the only system we've been allowed to use. That's why we work to change the political landscape so that government no longer has the power to help out its cronies.
Now what exactly was your problem with me, Gumba Masta?
Ignore him, he's just being odd.
He's like this to everyone.
But I swear, his question still made me laugh.
I just want to take him home with me. XD
Hey, what I'm to do?
I'm finding myself agreeing with many viewpoints that're brought up here and just saying "Me too." just is'nt cutting it for me.
Besides since the departure of Olimar from this board the coherence of the topics here have reached an unacceptable high, in fact I checked and it clearly violates the standards described in Document M22B8/COR-24-B or simply the LPA (LULZ provision act) which means this board is against federal law.
Anyways, back on topic.
So how long do you think it will take for them to jack up the fine so that it's greater than the cost of the health insurance?
Or make it a felony to not have health insurance?
Not until the Iran invasion chalks up a hundret dead US soldiers a day, I'd say.
I'm surprised you aren't familiar with Gumba by now :-)
My usage of food stamps would put me in the same category of people who are condemned as communists. As I explicitly stated, I never defended going on food stamps, nor would I have done it unless there was absolutely NO other choice in this shitty economic landscape. Look at the amount of people on unemployment benefits currently... more than any other time in history probably. Would so many of these typical working people have gone on them unless they had no other choice?