I figured this warrneted its own topic so poor Shane wouldn't have his derailed. But yes let's look at Libertarianism as a theme in video games and see if we can compile detailed, comprehensive list!
Fallout: New Vegas is a good start. It covers the Nolan Chart Pretty well with each of the four endings filling one of the four areas of the chart (Ironically one user here favors the statist House path). I would also Argue The Assassin's Creed series and Deus Ex games have heavy libertarian themes but what do you all think?
Quote from: tnu on October 07, 2013, 10:43:07 PM
I figured this warrneted its own topic so poor Shane wouldn't have his derailed. But yes let's look at Libertarianism as a theme in video games and see if we can compile detailed, comprehensive list!
Fallout: New Vegas is a good start. It covers the Nolan Chart Pretty well with each of the four endings filling one of the four areas of the chart (Ironically one user here favors the statist House path). I would also Argue The Assassin's Creed series and Deus Ex games have heavy libertarian themes but what do you all think?
Along the same lines, the Elder Scrolls series is fairly libertarian. There is vaguely a government, but it has very little to do with the citizens' lives.
World of Warcraft has inserted some very Libertarian ideas in the latest expansion. The final boss of the final dungeon is the head of one of the main player factions, who has managed to drive most of his own faction into open rebellion against him by completely going off the deep end and trying to take over the world through powers best left alone.
Quote from: dallen68 on October 08, 2013, 01:31:38 AM
Along the same lines, the Elder Scrolls series is fairly libertarian. There is vaguely a government, but it has very little to do with the citizens' lives.
Well, except in Skyrim where there's a war going on and there's the Thalmor enforcing a law banning the worship of Talos.
There was a big debate about Assassin's Creed on here awhile back. The Glyph puzzles in Brotherhood made it suggested the Templar's invented capitalism as a way to control the masses. Somebody on here played the game in another language and said the glyph's were totally different.
Bioshock is your average liberal arts major's understand of Atlas Shrugged.
Red Dead Redemption had alot of libertarian themes running through it. Every government official was either incompetent, corrupt, or both. The characters actually showed compassion for one another despite and have an orderly society despite *gasp* there being no government to speak of in most of the world.
Quote from: FSBlueApocalypse on October 08, 2013, 08:10:41 AM
There was a big debate about Assassin's Creed on here awhile back. The Glyph puzzles in Brotherhood made it suggested the Templar's invented capitalism as a way to control the masses. Somebody on here played the game in another language and said the glyph's were totally different.
Bioshock is your average liberal arts major's understand of Atlas Shrugged.
Red Dead Redemption had alot of libertarian themes running through it. Every government official was either incompetent, corrupt, or both. The characters actually showed compassion for one another despite and have an orderly society despite *gasp* there being no government to speak of in most of the world.
Well, it seems Rockstar hates politicians lately. RDR, Max Payne 3, and GTA5, all seem to have bad guys who are politicians.
Quote from: FSBlueApocalypse on October 08, 2013, 08:10:41 AM
There was a big debate about Assassin's Creed on here awhile back. The Glyph puzzles in Brotherhood made it suggested the Templar's invented capitalism as a way to control the masses. Somebody on here played the game in another language and said the glyph's were totally different.
Bioshock is your average liberal arts major's understand of Atlas Shrugged.
Red Dead Redemption had alot of libertarian themes running through it. Every government official was either incompetent, corrupt, or both. The characters actually showed compassion for one another despite and have an orderly society despite *gasp* there being no government to speak of in most of the world.
Actually, Rapture didn't go ti shit until Ryan went mad with power.
http://xbox360.gamespy.com/xbox-360/bioshock/799226p1.html
Quote from: D on October 08, 2013, 08:05:15 AM
Well, except in Skyrim where there's a war going on and there's the Thalmor enforcing a law banning the worship of Talos.
The Thalmor is not the government, well at least not our government. Also, they're not doing a very good job preventing the worship of Talos; simply pay the local guards more for allowing Talos worship than the Thalmor are paying for not Talos worship, and it goes away.
Oh, yeah, and backstab on the road solves a lot of this, too. :D
Quote from: dallen68 on October 08, 2013, 04:27:26 PM
The Thalmor is not the government, well at least not our government. Also, they're not doing a very good job preventing the worship of Talos; simply pay the local guards more for allowing Talos worship than the Thalmor are paying for not Talos worship, and it goes away.
Oh, yeah, and backstab on the road solves a lot of this, too. :D
Shame they don't let you full on go to war with the Thalmor.
Quote from: R.E.H.W.R. on October 08, 2013, 01:02:50 PM
Well, it seems Rockstar hates politicians lately. RDR, Max Payne 3, and GTA5, all seem to have bad guys who are politicians.
You left our LA Noire. the whole city government is an antagonist!
Quote from: D on October 08, 2013, 06:22:33 PM
Shame they don't let you full on go to war with the Thalmor.
Yeah but how are you going to pay foir it? Honestly I always find the Civil War a bit of a trick to deal with. i'm pretty skeptical of the Stormcloaks but I absolutely can't stand the empire.
Quote from: tnu on October 08, 2013, 11:38:26 PM
Yeah but how are you going to pay foir it? Honestly I always find the Civil War a bit of a trick to deal with. i'm pretty skeptical of the Stormcloaks but I absolutely can't stand the empire.
With the vast resources of your one man army, of course! :p
The other part of it is like this: Throughout history, the Emperor has always been a Dragonborn. Titus Mede is not a dragon born. Therefore, the Empire is illegitimate. The Jarls on either side have a legitmate claim to the holds they end up with no matter who wins the civil war. Therefore, I sided with the Stormcloaks.
Now, if they'd just hurry up and declare me Emperor, everyone could go back to pretending the government doesn't exists.
well as "legitimate" a claim as a statesman CAN have. though consideirng my chracter is a Thief he has good reason to support having a sinlge orginization of guards to bribe per hold.
My character is all four things, so having a single organization of bribe-ees is convenient.
Quote from: tnu on October 08, 2013, 11:38:26 PM
Yeah but how are you going to pay foir it? Honestly I always find the Civil War a bit of a trick to deal with. i'm pretty skeptical of the Stormcloaks but I absolutely can't stand the empire.
I'm not talking about joining a specific army. I mean doing a quest where you personally take down the Thalmor.
Honestly, both sides of the Civil War are garbage. You have the Empire who are just sniveling cowards who obey the Thalmor because they got their asses handed to them and want Skyrim to surrender to them, and on the other hand you have the Stormcloaks who want their independence, but are also massive racists.
It sucks there isn't a third option where you try to stop the war without joining either side.
What about Morriwind?
Quote from: dallen68 on October 09, 2013, 10:05:01 AM
Morrowind is a theocracy.
I mean the game, not the country.
Quote from: nilecroc on October 09, 2013, 10:19:02 AM
I mean the game, not the country.
The two things aren't really separable from each other.
I'm going to go ahead and presume you meant how much is the government involved in Morrowind.
Unlike other provinces in Tamriel, the province of Morrowind has a strong centralized theocratic government that controls much of the citizen's daily lives. (You are not a citizen, therefore you aren't affected that much)
In most other parts of Tamriel, the only government you actually have to worry about at any given time is whoever the local noble is; except for when your on an Imperial Highway, which for all intents and purposes is about the only Imperial Service in existence. In Morrowind, however, with the exception of the Telvanni District, the local government really doesn't mean much.
Lucky for you, by the time you show up, Morrowind is having a constitutional crises involving the emergence of a long lost faction. You don't know this at the time, but that's the reason the Emperor sends you. In any case, when you get there the temple has more important things to worry about (like continuing to exist) to actually enforce most of its laws.
Also, it should be noted that your sent as the Emperor's personal representative, not as an agent of the Imperial Government.
Quote from: dallen68 on October 09, 2013, 11:54:19 AM
The two things aren't really separable from each other.
I'm going to go ahead and presume you meant how much is the government involved in Morrowind.
Unlike other provinces in Tamriel, the province of Morrowind has a strong centralized theocratic government that controls much of the citizen's daily lives. (You are not a citizen, therefore you aren't affected that much)
In most other parts of Tamriel, the only government you actually have to worry about at any given time is whoever the local noble is; except for when your on an Imperial Highway, which for all intents and purposes is about the only Imperial Service in existence. In Morrowind, however, with the exception of the Telvanni District, the local government really doesn't mean much.
Lucky for you, by the time you show up, Morrowind is having a constitutional crises involving the emergence of a long lost faction. You don't know this at the time, but that's the reason the Emperor sends you. In any case, when you get there the temple has more important things to worry about (like continuing to exist) to actually enforce most of its laws.
Also, it should be noted that your sent as the Emperor's personal representative, not as an agent of the Imperial Government.
I meant as player freedom goes. I should have specified. I own Morriwind, but have yet to get past tge first wuest where you find what's his face. From What I've heard, there are more factions, choices, spells, weapons in Morrowind than in Oblivion and Skyrim.
Not to mention the way Bethesda butchered magic in Skyrim (specifically destruction magic) and took out spell creation.
Oh, in that case:
There's about the same number of factions as there always is, except they have different names. Unlike the other 2 games, joining one faction does prevent you from joining the other.
It's difficult to compare the number of choices to be made.
The number of actual spells is consistent, but there is a different school of magick. Enchanting is actually easier, and more worthwhile
There are more weapons (and 2 entire classes of such).
And finally, Bethesda finally got magic right in Skyrim. Now, you don't have to invent spells that it's been known for centuries don't work. :p
One of my faves is Persona 4. Though not strictly libertarian, it has a central theme of "truth vs deception" and how persuing truth is difficult and often painful but in the end, you'll be better off.
Great game to play or if you don't want to do that, watch the animated series which captures the game perfectly.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1bYSlAbRLI
One of the most notable moments is a part in the game where you're given a VERY hard choice.
-Take justice into your own hands but never learn the whole story
-Stay your hand and take the harder road but ultimately learn all
And believe me, the way it's set up, you are VERY tempted to take the "evil" choice which gives you the worst ending.
Quote from: Lord T Hawkeye on October 09, 2013, 07:35:02 PM
One of my faves is Persona 4. Though not strictly libertarian, it has a central theme of "truth vs deception" and how persuing truth is difficult and often painful but in the end, you'll be better off.
Great game to play or if you don't want to do that, watch the animated series which captures the game perfectly.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1bYSlAbRLI
One of the most notable moments is a part in the game where you're given a VERY hard choice.
-Take justice into your own hands but never learn the whole story
-Stay your hand and take the harder road but ultimately learn all
And believe me, the way it's set up, you are VERY tempted to take the "evil" choice which gives you the worst ending.
Reading this helped me get through work. Thanks.
Quote from: nilecroc on October 09, 2013, 10:47:25 PM
Reading this helped me get through work. Thanks.
You mean just the post or did you actually check out the animated series?
Quote from: Lord T Hawkeye on October 10, 2013, 12:53:28 AM
You mean just the post or did you actually check out the animated series?
The post.
Pokemon. In gen 1 (and its remakes) you take down team rocket singlehandedly and free Saffron City while the police are nowhere to be seen. In D/P/Pt, you take on team plasma and stop them from destroying the universe. Pokemon, shpwing that a ten year old and his super powered pete are more competent than the government since 1996.
I really like the open world and game play of the saints row series.
"When it comes down to it, there isn't that much of a difference between the stormcloaks and the imperials. They both want to tell you how to live your life. I guess if I have to hear it, I'd rather hear it from a true Nord, than some Emperor down south."
-Eorland Gray-Mane
Armorer to the Companions.
Sorry for resurrecting this somewhat old thread, but I've thought of another example in the form of South Park: The Stick of Truth. The government characters in it are, in typical South Park fashion, portrayed as complete idiots who are all too willing to abuse their authoritah. In the end the day is saved by a group of LARPing kids instead of the incompetent agents.
Quote from: tnu on October 07, 2013, 10:43:07 PM
I figured this warrneted its own topic so poor Shane wouldn't have his derailed. But yes let's look at Libertarianism as a theme in video games and see if we can compile detailed, comprehensive list!
Fallout: New Vegas is a good start. It covers the Nolan Chart Pretty well with each of the four endings filling one of the four areas of the chart (Ironically one user here favors the statist House path). I would also Argue The Assassin's Creed series and Deus Ex games have heavy libertarian themes but what do you all think?
Don't think I'd call House exactly statist. He's just a business owner and has made it clear he has no interest in becoming a tyrant or interferring with people's lives. He justs the money to keep flowing in New Vegas without any interference. The only reason he has a problem with the NCR is because they do want to interfere with the free market.
[yt]jI1GU73KxEg[/yt]