Atheism vs. Agnosticism (and Penn Jillette)

[Textra1]

The evidence given before me shows that there is no active god. As far as we can observe, god doesn't exist.

However, I'd be more than happy if a "higher being" or entity existed. In fact, I HOPE there is one.

What does that make me? An Atheist, or Agnostic? I didn't say I believed in one, I just said I hope there is one and would be glad if there was.

It depends on your definition of atheist. Most card carrying atheists, myself included, define atheism as a lack of a belief in god. Some define it as a belief that there is no god. There is a distinction between the two. It's analogous to the distinction between not-guilty and innocent. I think the former definition is more accurate since the word atheist is really a prefix and the word theist. A, means not or without. A-symmetry, means without-symmetry. A-sexuality means without-sexuality, so a-theism means without-theism. Think of it in terms of a set. You have the universal set (U) and you have the set of theists (T). So anyone not in the set T is in the set aT.

There is no in-between; you're either a theist or you are not. If you are not, then you are without-theism. You may well also be an agnostic. If you claim to not know whether god exists, you are an agnostic. Gnosticism speaks to what you know, not what you believe.

I'd be happy if some higher being existed too, though not the god of Abraham. That character is a schizophrenic megalomaniacal madman. 

[chrisch]

What does that make me? An Atheist, or Agnostic? I didn't say I believed in one, I just said I hope there is one and would be glad if there was.

A dreamer?

[Real Captain Olimar]

If you answer "maybe," then you are an agnostic.

If you answer "0_0," then you gotta make up your mind.

[Tom S. Fox]

Aha! The video works now.




However, I have nothing to add.

[Travis Retriever]

If you answer "maybe," then you are an agnostic.

Matt Dilahunty: "The question is, 'do you believe a god?'  If you answer 'yes' you're a theist.  Anything else, including 'I don't know' and you're an atheist."

[Gumba Masta]

Oh my god, it's the Rapture. Look at all the dead threads comming to life.

[valvatica]

Oh my god, it's the Rapture. Look at all the dead threads comming to life.

Good thing it was resurrected or I might have ended up starting a new thread on the subject. Yes, I've found the "agnostic" act annoying as of late for all the reasons described here. No one knows for certain. My belief could always be wrong but since it's a belief then by definition I'm an atheist. Few say they're anti-theist alongside being atheist... the rest simple don't believe. If it's solely for people not wanting to be lumped in with those atheists they feel will make them look bad, tough. You are what you are. I can call myself a eukaryotic metazoan mammalian placental happlorhini sapient hominid in efforts to distance myself from those other humans making me look bad, but I'm still a human and I can't change that! "Agnostics" are winning no points from anybody (especially the religious) with this imagined middle ground, and it's not as polarized of a subject as they would imagine it to be. I don't agree with a lot of the humanism/enlightenment mumbo jumbo that many atheists subscribe to, but it's not like politics where you can just switch parties or declare yourself part of no party altogether. If words are to have any meaning at all, these people have to accept that atheism is a term meant to define, and really it's not symptomatic of a "club" even though some out there might believe it to be.

AronRa on TAE: "Imagine a world of atheists: I'm an atheist, I'm also an atheist, well big frickin' deal!"