*sighs* Another Socialized Medicine Woo

[Gumba Masta]

Actually I did find a documentation that supports his argument of the AMA not being the only provider of doctors here.

[VectorM]

I clicked that. Was not the least bit annoyed.

[Lord T Hawkeye]

Okay, here's a new apologist argument...sorta...

I don't have all the facts, but I don't think you do either, so let me join you in your speculation. You say people will simply pay the fine and buy insurance when they're sick. However, Insurance, to the best of my knowledge, does not and will not cover things that happened before you got insured. I'm not taking about pre-existing conditions... I'm talking about past bills. You can't buy insurance today and put in a claim for the drugs you bought last week. Nor can you buy insurance today and pay for your ambulance and extended hospital stay a month ago due to an accident. Nor will buying insurance today cover the cost of seeing the doctor to find out you have a serious medical condition in the first place. So if you're right and the fine is minimal (I've searched and found no hard numbers, so I have no idea where you're getting that from... but let's play along), people will still have severe health care bills if they have accidents or in the process of diagnosing illnesses. One stroke, one heart attack, one serious fall... costs more than decades of health insurance premiums.

So even if the fines are less than health insurance, don't you think that many... most... maybe even all people would rather give their money and at least have the comfort of knowing they're insured in case of accidental injury or sudden illness rather than toss their money at the black hole that is government?

As for the especially poor part, it was my understanding that especially poor people are exempt from the fine, much like excessively poor people are exempt from income tax, etc etc.

And no... it's like someone demanding that reasonably well off people buy and store a supply of non-perishable foodstuffs and other essentials in case of emergency. Sure, it sounds unfair when everything is peachy, but no one will complain about it when the ice storms cut off power and transportation for a few weeks. Though I'm not necessarily saying that forcing people to buy health care is the right way to go about things.... whether it's morally justified or whether it's unconstitutional is not my concern. I'm just sure it could work and could end up benefiting everyone, assuming the bill isn't shot down or scrapped out of hand by the other half of the US government as soon as they have an ounce of power back, thereby wasting billions of dollars and years of work.

Short version: The claim that people are going to just eat the fine and not buy insurance until they get sick is false because insurance doesn't work retroactively so people will buy it just in cast of that.

Sounds hokey to me but anyone got something on this?

[MrBogosity]

No, if they have to cover preexisting conditions, then they have to pay for procedures to cover illnesses or injuries that occurred before you were covered. They don't have to pay for any actual PROCEDURES done before then, but that's a different thing.

[Lord T Hawkeye]

I thought as much.  He seems to have a knack for being an apologist for immorality.  He also tried to make excuses for Al Gore winning the Nobel Prize over Irena Sendler.

So bottom line, even if you were in a car accident while uninsured, under this bill, you could easily get insurance and cover it on the spot anyway?

[MrBogosity]

Yes, in fact, I wouldn't be surprised if hospitals developed a process where you got automatically signed up on the ambulance ride in. If they have to take all comers on demand, why not?

[Travis Retriever]

Yes, in fact, I wouldn't be surprised if hospitals developed a process where you got automatically signed up on the ambulance ride in. If they have to take all comers on demand, why not?

And how much do you want to bet that the cost of health care is going to go past the moon because of it?
Jacob Spinney and Stefan Molyneux have gone into detail about this, as I'm sure you and Lord T Hawkeye are both aware.

And I'm sure the press and the state will both blame the free market, yet again, and everyone will likely be begging for 100% socialized medicine by the time this is through.
And, if our experiences with medicare and medicaid--with unfunded liabilities of over $86 trillion--are any indicator, I'm sure that number (even after adjusting for the impending inflation) will be tens, if not hundreds of times that by the time all is said and done.

[Travis Retriever]

As for his point that "Libertarians are selfish":

[yt]oIeiFheHTOI[/yt]

Morrakiu is made of awesome.

Yeah, I'm SO selfish, I actually have the balls to believe that I own myself, my time, the product of my labor, and my own body.
I'm such a evil horrible person.

(Completely off topic:  2^10 posts for me!! )