Public schools and the "gay agenda"

[Travis Retriever]

The problem:
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Ironic yes?  The Right Wing Christians try to force religion into politics and in schools and now they have to deal with it.
As Ruwart once said: 
"Those who control will only find themselves controlled.  They reap as they sew." - Dr. Mary J. Ruwart.

The solution: get the state (all levels) out of education of all kinds and out of marriage.

PS:  Sorry if I'm lacking in articulative skill.
I'm tired. X_X

[MrBogosity]

That is just surreal...How could our government schools have gotten to that point and NOT been considered colossal failures?

[Travis Retriever]

A stupid, but honest question:
What do you mean? ^^;
Please explain.

[Lord T Hawkeye]

That is just surreal...How could our government schools have gotten to that point and NOT been considered colossal failures?

The same way the war on drugs has reported the abysmal results it has and still not been considered a colossal failure.

[MrBogosity]

I mean, they're trying to take care of a problem of bullying, with solutions that have nothing to do with bullying.

Think of the chain of non-accountability that had to have taken place to get to that point: the school doesn't hold bullies accountable and punish them. The school system doesn't hold the teachers and administrators accountable and punish them for not punishing the bullies. The school board doesn't hold the school system accountable for not holding the administrators accountable. The voters don't hold the school board accountable. So now a few of them try to use taxpayer money to apply a band-aid that won't even cover the wound to begin with.

In what way is this NOT insane?

[Lord T Hawkeye]

And I hear Obama was talking about shortening summer vacation.  Yeah, let's lean towards imitating the Japanese school system now.  -_-

[Travis Retriever]

I mean, they're trying to take care of a problem of bullying, with solutions that have nothing to do with bullying.

Think of the chain of non-accountability that had to have taken place to get to that point: the school doesn't hold bullies accountable and punish them. The school system doesn't hold the teachers and administrators accountable and punish them for not punishing the bullies. The school board doesn't hold the school system accountable for not holding the administrators accountable. The voters don't hold the school board accountable. So now a few of them try to use taxpayer money to apply a band-aid that won't even cover the wound to begin with.

In what way is this NOT insane?

Damn, I didn't think of that chain of non-accountability. 0_0

The best way to heal the wounds would be to privatize the entire school system.
As I've already said:  Make education a 100% free market!!!

And I hear Obama was talking about shortening summer vacation.  Yeah, let's lean towards imitating the Japanese school system now.  -_-

I've heard the justification is that the students tend to forget the material over summer break, so the first few months of next year is spent reviewing forgotten material and that eliminating summer break would get rid of that problem.
I've also heard people say we should mimic the Japanese school system because they tend to have higher grades, test scores, etc than us.
I'm not saying I agree with that policy change.  I'm just stating the justifications I've heard for them.

[11mc22]

And I hear Obama was talking about shortening summer vacation.  Yeah, let's lean towards imitating the Japanese school system now.  -_-

Or Korean =)

[Lord T Hawkeye]

I've heard the justification is that the students tend to forget the material over summer break, so the first few months of next year is spent reviewing forgotten material and that eliminating summer break would get rid of that problem.
I've also heard people say we should mimic the Japanese school system because they tend to have higher grades, test scores, etc than us.
I'm not saying I agree with that policy change.  I'm just stating the justifications I've heard for them.

Azrael's website tells a very different story from his own experiences teaching in Japan.  (he was with the JET program)

First of all, they have a higher suicide rate among teens apparently and many say it's because the pressure to succeed is insane.  You think American schools drill that ridiculous "If you're a loser in school, you'll be a loser for life" mantra into kids' heads, they're worse down there.

Even worse is bullying is a big problem down there too because they have this policy that all kids are entitled to an education and they enforce this by basically denying teachers any disciplinary tools whatsoever.  Kids can be as disruptive as they want to and get off scott free.  Can't even make them stand in the hall.

Yeah, free market would do wonders.  Just like a movie theatre, they value you as a customer only up until you start ruining everyone else's experience.  Then they kick you out to the curb where you belong.

He's also ranted about sport and other kinds of programs the schools run, nobody gives a damn about them and yet they keep wasting precious time and resources on them anyway.

He said the big problem is they hate change down there.  A fellow teacher of his said it best...

"It's insane.  I swear, if you started punching a japanese guy in the balls and kept doing it for 2 weeks, the day you stop doing it, he'll say 'hey!  Why aren't you punching me in the balls anymore?  You can't change the system!'"

[Travis Retriever]

First of all, they have a higher suicide rate among teens apparently and many say it's because the pressure to succeed is insane.  You think American schools drill that ridiculous "If you're a loser in school, you'll be a loser for life" mantra into kids' heads, they're worse down there.

I pointed this out and was said to be wrong.
I tried looking for data and had trouble finding something to back me up:
I did find something on this site: http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_sui_rat_in_age_15_24-suicide-rates-ages-15-24
But it showed Japan being better off...

[MrBogosity]

WHO reports: http://www.who.int/mental_health/prevention/suicide/country_reports/en/index.html

Suicide rates per 100,000 for 2006:
USA: ages 5-14: 0.7; ages 15-24: 10.0
Japan: ages 5-14: 0.7; ages 15-24: 14.1

Japan is worse.

Also: "Bullying is behind teen suicide wave in Japan"

http://www.monstersandcritics.com/news/asiapacific/features/article_1222647.php/Bullying_is_behind_teen_suicide_wave_in_Japan

Numerous victims have overloaded a hotline service wanting to tell someone how they were bullied at school because they could not tell their families. In the last week Childline Japan has received 27,622 calls, but could only answer 2,890 of them due to a shortage of lines. The media has responded to the upsurge in suicides by running messages from celebrities, psychiatrists and education experts telling teens to cherish their lives and to know there are people who care about them.

Yeah, but not so much as to actually stop the bullying or anything...

A recent survey conducted on about 6,400 high school students nationwide showed that 55.6 per cent of males and 62.7 per cent of females experienced psychological bullying such as verbal harassment even when they were in elementary schools.

However, survivors of bullying and their parents say campaigns against bullying are ineffective as schools cover up cases to keep statistics down and much of the abuse is verbal, making it difficult to report and detect. Schools need to relax curricula and reduce class sizes to give quality attention to students, according to Mitsuru Taki of the National Institute for Educational Policy Research.

[Virgil0211]

I have a bit of personal experience with this. My parents actually chose to home-school me because of how rampant the bullying problem was. It left me with a few anxiety disorders as well.

[MrBogosity]

I'm not even going to go into the stuff the bullying--and the subsequent inaction by the school (or even worse, punishing me instead of the bully)--did to me mentally, other than to say it did teach me an important lesson about what authority figures are and how they should absolutely never, ever be trusted.

[MrBogosity]

I did find something on this site: http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_sui_rat_in_age_15_24-suicide-rates-ages-15-24
But it showed Japan being better off...

I just got around to checking out that link. It says, "most recent" and "latest available data," but if you look at the fine print on the bottom, it says "late 1990s." So either this site hasn't been updated in a decade, or someone there's got something to prove.

[Travis Retriever]

@Shane's first reply:  Thanks for the information.   I'll be sure to keep it in mind.

@Virgil:  Wow that sucks; sorry to hear that.   It's the reason why I was homeschooled from k-9th grade.  I'm convinced after hearing from Shane that homeschooled students tend to have higher test scores, etc, that it is part of the reason I do so well in college now.

@Shane's second reply:  Sorry to hear that.

@Shane's third reply:  Good point.  Thanks.  I didn't check that. ^^;