Crime and punishment

[Lord T Hawkeye]

This is a real big topic up here in Canada these days and I've wanted to get some possible input about it.

Judges up here are rapidly winning the "most unpopular group in Canada" award these days as it seems just about everyone feels they are handing out laughable sentences to dangerous people.

An extreme case from a while ago was a fellow found guilty of hit and run causing death who got 9 months and served less than half of it.  He never expressed any remorse for the act.

More recently was a man who left his kids in the hot car while he was in the bar.  They were found alive but dehydraded and suffering heat stroke.  No charges were laid due to authorities not being able to prove how long they were in the care. (that got a big WTF from me)

One case I did agree with (though not many seem to agree with me) was a religious sect that practices polygamy in their community.  Our province's attourney general tried to bring the heat down on them but the judge ruled that he overstepped his boundaries and had no grounds.  The community has been investigated in the past and no evidence of abuse was ever found.


But of course, those are small potatoes.  There have been some real horror stories too such as two remorseless killers being let out soon, one who strangled his wife and said under questioning that he got a thrill out of it and would have killed his daughter too if she were there.  The other deliberately accellerated his SUV to run over a 49 year old man and his 6 year old step son.
http://www.theprovince.com/news/Outrage+remorseless+killers+release/2026108/story.html

Panhandler gets 3 years for killing a man over 50 cents
http://www.theprovince.com/news/Calgary+panhandler+gets+three+years+killing+over+cents/2024345/story.html

I see these almost on a regular basis too and I have to admit, it is unsettling especially when you see people getting worse sentences for things that don't even compare.  I even sometimes worry it's going to lead to vigilante killings if not dealt with.

This is one topic I've always found myself conflicted about.  I do understand that we should try to reform wrong doers whenever possible and prison very often runs contrary to that goal but on the other hand, it is well established that you can't change someone who doesn't want to change so what should be done with those people and who do you tell who still has hope and who should just be locked up?

Above all, are these really miscarriages of justice and if so, who or what is to blame for it?

[MrBogosity]

Here's the important question: are they happening more, or are they just being reported more? And how much does this happen in proportion to all of the trials that occur in the country? What you have is a collection of anecdotes, and you can doubtless find many such stories in even the best justice system.

Also, some of them may appear ridiculous but make sense once all of the details of the case (which are seldom reported) are known.

[Lord T Hawkeye]

Here's the important question: are they happening more, or are they just being reported more? And how much does this happen in proportion to all of the trials that occur in the country? What you have is a collection of anecdotes, and you can doubtless find many such stories in even the best justice system.

Checking out Statistics Canada though I admit, I'm not the best at reading these things...

Also, some of them may appear ridiculous but make sense once all of the details of the case (which are seldom reported) are known.

Well, the standard response to that is "if there's really a good reason for it, why don't the judges just come out and say it rather than have the public think they don't care?"

[Lord T Hawkeye]

Okay, the good news is that violent crimes themselves are stable or declining though gang violence is on the rise (yes, we have drug prohibition to thank for that no doubt)

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/daily-quotidien/081023/dq081023a-eng.htm

"Adults convicted of a violent gun crime were sentenced, on average, to just over four years in prison, double the typical sentence length of those convicted of the same violent offence where a firearm had not been used."

http://www40.statcan.gc.ca/l01/cst01/legal20a-eng.htm

Not sure what to make of these.  Like I said, I'm not the best at interperating.

[MrBogosity]

Well, the standard response to that is "if there's really a good reason for it, why don't the judges just come out and say it rather than have the public think they don't care?"

Maybe they did. Have you read the decisions, or just going on the verdict?

[Lord T Hawkeye]

I do want to hear the judges' side of the stories but I don't know where I can find them.  They're rarely quoted much in the papers.  (the explanation given for this is simply that the judges aren't talking to them)

[MrBogosity]

Can't you go online somewhere to read the published decisions?

[Lord T Hawkeye]

I'll keep trying but I'm not sure where I can find them if they are indeed published.

On another note, the editorial section can be disheartening sometimes.  One person yesterday actually made this comment on the topic of the religious polygamy issue: He actually said that the fact that the charter of rights protects their right to practice their religion as they see fit is proof that we need to scrap it.  The women living there MUST be being exploited and we have to do something!

I'm not a fan of their religion either but I'm even less of a fan of meddling when there's no real evidence of any wrong doing.