Rationalist Libertarian Friendly Fandoms & Communities?

[Travis Retriever]

It's no secret that I'm a furry at this point.  And, as I shared with Hawkeye, Professor Fennec and another furry friend (who shall remain nameless) earlier, it's about as libertarian friendly as the SJWs without even having the consistency, coherency & well adjustment (and that's saying something).  Now that I'm almost 27, my mind turns towards greener pastures.  So much so, while I would like to participate more in the fandom (going to fur cons, getting a fursuit, meeting with friends I have known online for almost 10 years in the fandom, etc), I wonder that is really optimal for my social & emotional development and maturity.  I'm going to be blunt:  while it is true that many furs aren't into it for the sexual aspect, for me, it's the only thing that has kept me in it for this long.  Beyond that, I find I don't have anything in common or anything to really gain (and I'm not talking money either) from something like 99.99% of furs.  I've always had a phobia of mascot costumes (including fursuits) irl even though that has subsided somewhat.  I don't draw.  I think animal rights/wildlife/exotic pet stuff can go fuck itself. I find furs in general are even worse than people in general when it comes to helping friends through a crisis (despite all the big talk about being a family, supportive, yada yada yada).  To the point where I can still recall having an even shittier internet and being on Second Life and it always seemed like all the fun stuff with furs happened when I wasn't around.  Every sodding time.  I could go on.  I'm looking for more, libertarian friendly communities, fandoms, etc.  And yes, the irony of the fact that most furs are socialists and also much richer/luckier and, dare I say, "privileged" than me, has not escaped me.  And again, not naming names because this is going into my furry feed as well and I do not feel like starting a pointless flame war with clueless twats.

I've got my eyes on two communities at this point I'm considering trying to get more into.  The bodybuilding/strength community and the programming/tech community.  I've been at least tangentially involved in the former, and am considering getting more into the latter (as in, like, at least getting my feet wet).  But I do have concerns.  For the bodybuilding/strength community there's a fair amount of organic/anti-GMO/all natural dogma.  Though I find some of the bigger figures in it like Alan Aragon, Armi Legge, etc tend to reject that crap and rightly so.   And as for the programming community?  Well, I've already explained the issue of loss of perspective for rank beginners in both fitness and computers, but there was another concern I shared with Shane via Skype:

"So I recall you saying programming is a meritocracy.  If so, then I have questions about the community of it.
What's this talk I hear about people who are too old being turned down?  I had an engineering professor who was turned down from a job at Google because he was past his teens and 20s.  I've seen articles talking about 'Well I've never seen a good programmer who has been at it for more than 30 years/was in his 50s and beyond.'  What's the story/deal with that?

Also, maybe it's just my own experience with the few programmers I know from the furry fandom, but I find because of so many people confusing 'open source' with 'communism' and 'Microsoft' with 'free market' that a few too many of them are also socialists as well. :\

A very libertarian friendly community I've found is, interestingly enough, the bodybuilding and strength communities.  Even among the furry fandom's bodybuilders, it seems most of them are, if not libertarian, at least libertarian friendly.  Which, for a group with as many socialists, leftists and SJWs as the furry fandom, makes it all the more impressive. O.o"

[MrBogosity]

Sorry, haven't been on in a few hours (day after Christmas is VERY interesting when you have kids).

As I already told Shane via Skype:
So I recall you saying programming is a meritocracy.  If so, then I have questions about the community of it.
What's this talk I hear about people who are too old being turned down?  I had an engineering professor who was turned down from a job at Google because he was past his teens and 20s.  I've seen articles talking about "Well I've never seen a good programmer who has been at it for more than 30 years/was in his 50s and beyond."  So...what's the story/deal with that?

I've heard these stories as anecdotes, but I haven't been able to verify any of them. From what I see, if it does happen it's the exception rather than the norm. And it's a very stupid thing to do, and Google didn't get to where they are today by being stupid.

Also, maybe it's just my own experience with the few programmers I know from the furry fandom, but I find because of so many people confusing "open source" with "communism" and "Microsoft" with "free market" that a few too many of them are also socialists as well. :\

There is, sadly, quite a bit of that. I've had people ask me in confusion how I can be both a libertarian and a fan of open source. It's software patents and copyrights that are anti-libertarian to begin with!

[Travis Retriever]

Sorry, haven't been on in a few hours (day after Christmas is VERY interesting when you have kids).

That would explain a lot.  I hope you and your family had an awesome Christmas, Shane.   Same for the rest of the folks on the forum.

I've heard these stories as anecdotes, but I haven't been able to verify any of them. From what I see, if it does happen it's the exception rather than the norm. And it's a very stupid thing to do, and Google didn't get to where they are today by being stupid.

Hence why I asked for clarification.  And yeah, that did seem a bit...out of character for Google.  At worst, they're malicious, but they're definitely not stupid.

There is, sadly, quite a bit of that. I've had people ask me in confusion how I can be both a libertarian and a fan of open source. It's software patents and copyrights that are anti-libertarian to begin with!

Well said.

[evensgrey]

You might want to take a look at the Maker communities.  From what I can tell, they're a bit less insane than most.  (It's hard to be insane and make it in a social circle where people judge you firstly on whether the things you make do what they're supposed to or not, and then on how elegantly they do it and how well you made them.)

It's kind of hard to say what the world software development is really up to, since you'll literally never hear about or see most of it (the largest part of software is all the 'glue' that keeps all those systems working and communicating with each other, the stuff consumers see is a small fraction of the code written).  There is a tendency for a lot of the elder coders to have a lot of bad habits and things now seen as bad habits picked up from outdated languages and programing paradigms.  That being said, a lot of places will pay handsomely for people who understand those outdated languages and paradigms, simply because rather a lot of important current systems are built out of the stuff (there are banks with 40+ year old COBOL that's the backbone of their business, for example, and don't forget that IBM takes great pains to ensure every line of code ever written for their System/360 mainframes and successors continues to run perfectly on all current zSeries models for precisely this reason).

[MrBogosity]

It also changes VERY quickly. I stopped writing web applications about 5 years ago, and now everything I know is obsolete. I'd have to relearn it all again to start doing it again.

[Travis Retriever]

You might want to take a look at the Maker communities.  From what I can tell, they're a bit less insane than most.  (It's hard to be insane and make it in a social circle where people judge you firstly on whether the things you make do what they're supposed to or not, and then on how elegantly they do it and how well you made them.)

It's kind of hard to say what the world software development is really up to, since you'll literally never hear about or see most of it (the largest part of software is all the 'glue' that keeps all those systems working and communicating with each other, the stuff consumers see is a small fraction of the code written).  There is a tendency for a lot of the elder coders to have a lot of bad habits and things now seen as bad habits picked up from outdated languages and programing paradigms.  That being said, a lot of places will pay handsomely for people who understand those outdated languages and paradigms, simply because rather a lot of important current systems are built out of the stuff (there are banks with 40+ year old COBOL that's the backbone of their business, for example, and don't forget that IBM takes great pains to ensure every line of code ever written for their System/360 mainframes and successors continues to run perfectly on all current zSeries models for precisely this reason).

Thanks, evensgrey.  I've never been one for making/building things, but it is something I've wanted to learn how to do, as it ties into other things I've wanted to learn as well:  building computers, getting better with cars, etc.  Hell, I might even be able to make my own fursuit. XD

And yeah, that would explain a LOT, actually, thanks.

It also changes VERY quickly. I stopped writing web applications about 5 years ago, and now everything I know is obsolete. I'd have to relearn it all again to start doing it again.

Would make sense as well.

[Travis Retriever]

So an update to this, a furry tinkerer and socialist I know apparently is involved in the maker community as well...leading me to believe a lot of these people associate big corporations to buy the stuff from instead as "capitalism" and what they do as "communism/community" much like the programmers.  I swear, if these people put even a fraction of the effort into reading a fucking dictionary as they did learning how to make and tinker, they'd all be even more hardcore ancaps and smarter than all of us.