Knight Lance Charge vs Spartan Phalanx

[Skm1091]

Could a Spartan Phalanx withstand the impact of the Lance Charge from plate armored knights on armored horse.

[evensgrey]

Wouldn't matter, the knights would never get near them.  The slingers would see to that.

[Skm1091]

Wouldn't matter, the knights would never get near them.  The slingers would see to that.

No Archers or Slingers on either side. Just the cavalry and the shield wall.

[R.E.H.W.R.]

No Archers or Slingers on either side. Just the cavalry and the shield wall.

The cavalry would never charge straight into a formation that deep. Eventually the mass of bodies stops the horses. They would skirt around and hit a softer target.

[R.E.H.W.R.]

Wouldn't matter, the knights would never get near them.  The slingers would see to that.

If it takes a close range shot , like 20 meters, from an english longbow to penetrate plate, I doubt slings would even annoy a plate covered knight.

[Skm1091]

The cavalry would never charge straight into a formation that deep. Eventually the mass of bodies stops the horses. They would skirt around and hit a softer target.

Okay. But could it soften up the phalanx enough for other knights and man-at-arms to attack? I guess the front row would be devastated since they have a couple hundred pounds of muscle and steel galloping right at them. If lance points made contact with their faces then that could be fatal.

[R.E.H.W.R.]

Okay. But could it soften up the phalanx enough for other knights and man-at-arms to attack?

Maybe? The cavalry would try to ride away as soon as possible, but I don't know if infantry would have enough time to get in.

I guess the front row would be devastated since they have a couple hundred pounds of muscle and steel galloping right at them. If lance points made contact with their faces then that could be fatal.

Most knights were wealthy landowners, so I doubt they would want to commit to a death sentence.
Well, if we are talking about bronze plate, I doubt it would provide much protection against hardened steel points.

[Skm1091]

Maybe? The cavalry would try to ride away as soon as possible, but I don't know if infantry would have enough time to get in.Most knights were wealthy landowners, so I doubt they would want to commit to a death sentence.
Well, if we are talking about bronze plate, I doubt it would provide much protection against hardened steel points.

What other ways could the knights deal with spartan phalanx?

I think they could brake a phalanx apart if they use incendiary weapons. Some Kind flammable chemical in a burning flask for example ie Molotov.

Any others?

[R.E.H.W.R.]

What other ways could the knights deal with spartan phalanx?

I think they could brake a phalanx apart if they use incendiary weapons. Some Kind flammable chemical in a burning flask for example ie Molotov.

Any others?

I would have knights and men at arms use halberds to hook shields and try to open up the line, while sending a force to hit the flanks, bottle them up so they can't move or turn. Sure, the Phalanx can stab at the guys with halberds, but even steel spears are kinda useless against plate.

[Skm1091]

I would have knights and men at arms use halberds to hook shields and try to open up the line, while sending a force to hit the flanks, bottle them up so they can't move or turn. Sure, the Phalanx can stab at the guys with halberds, but even steel spears are kinda useless against plate.

Nice BTW what do you think of my molotov idea. I don't care how tough the Spartans, your not going to stand in a formation, when your on fire. 

[R.E.H.W.R.]

Nice BTW what do you think of my molotov idea. I don't care how tough the Spartans, your not going to stand in a formation, when your on fire.

What's your fuel?

[Skm1091]

What's your fuel?

I know I can't use gasoline or modern petroleum so I want to ask you.

I was thinking a mixture of flammable oils. They did have have those back in those days (I think)

[R.E.H.W.R.]

I know I can't use gasoline or modern petroleum so I want to ask you.

I was thinking a mixture of flammable oils. They did have have those back in those days (I think)

I don't think Europeans had anything like that in that age, (that I can find) There were some but they were big and complicated.

[Ibrahim90]

I don't think Europeans had anything like that in that age, (that I can find) There were some but they were big and complicated.

the Near East had "naffatun" (naphtha throwers). that's how the Ayyubid garrison destroyed the siege tower at Acre before Richard I captured the place (also how the Tulunians destroyed al-fustat prior to the fatimid conquest)


(the grenades that the naffatun threw were smaller than a Molotov cocktail, and made of ceramic)

as to phalanx v. knight: well, spear armed, disciplined army v. heavy cavalry. you want to know the result? look up Bonnackburn...

[MrBogosity]

I know I can't use gasoline or modern petroleum so I want to ask you.

I was thinking a mixture of flammable oils. They did have have those back in those days (I think)

That's what started the Great Fire of Rome.