When I'm Cleanin' Broken Windows (from Fail Quotes)

[tnu]

Sorry to be that guy but can we move this to its own thread? It's getting a little out of control and I think it would be beneficial to split it off.

[Ibrahim90]

OK, things are getting a little heady here. I second tnu's motion, but must add this--for honesty's sake, before this is to be done:

@ Dallen68: firstly, I'm the one who pointed out that Government (and not the economy as a whole) was the one defaulting, not Surhot.

You said "it's the gov't that's going to default, which is the greatest thing ever!!!!" (Or close enough to it)

I did not say it would be the greatest thing ever--It didn't even come close to that in meaning (sorry, it's not "close enough"). I simply said it's better off that way: last I checked, that was a relative term. And it's only the case since it is really just a confirmation of what everyone here already knows: The US government has practically overspent itself into bankruptcy (for lack of a better description): over 1 trillion dollar deficits a year, a debt in excess of 16 trillion dollars, and no signs of it ever going back down. And it shows, when one looks at how the "services" it provides are doing, and indirectly on the economy as a whole. Yeah, all hell may well break loose, especially in the sectors government controls the most (e.g. finance, infrastructure), but frankly, it can either break loose now, or do so later (and, arguably, with possibly worse results). The Government might as well be honest about its state of Broke and just default now. The economy will gradually recover on its own from the inevitable re-alignment in either situation, as it did after the defaulting of every government in history, provided govco doesn't screw around with it again.


Now you may continue...

[dallen68]

OK, things are getting a little heady here. I second tnu's motion, but must add this--for honesty's sake, before this is to be done:

@ Dallen68: firstly, I'm the one who pointed out that Government (and not the economy as a whole) was the one defaulting, not Surhot.

I did not say it would be the greatest thing ever--It didn't even come close to that in meaning (sorry, it's not "close enough"). I simply said it's better off that way: last I checked, that was a relative term. And it's only the case since it is really just a confirmation of what everyone here already knows: The US government has practically overspent itself into bankruptcy (for lack of a better description): over 1 trillion dollar deficits a year, a debt in excess of 16 trillion dollars, and no signs of it ever going back down. And it shows, when one looks at how the "services" it provides are doing, and indirectly on the economy as a whole. Yeah, all hell may well break loose, especially in the sectors government controls the most (e.g. finance, infrastructure), but frankly, it can either break loose now, or do so later (and, arguably, with possibly worse results). The Government might as well be honest about its state of Broke and just default now. The economy will gradually recover on its own from the inevitable re-alignment in either situation, as it did after the defaulting of every government in history, provided govco doesn't screw around with it again.


Now you may continue...

None of which I disagree with. Although, I would suggest option C - the government undergo an ordered bankruptcy to minimize the damage. Defaulting - which means just deciding to not pay the debts- would be catastrophic now or later, at least politically. I realize that in essence doing the bankruptcy would amount to the same thing economically - but politically it would save face. One of the problems is our currency is based on the "faith and trust" (I believe the phrase is) of the U.S. Gov't; and if there is no "faith and trust", the currency is worthless.

That said, I probably went a touch overboard with that little rant - and put more on surcot than was actually warranted.

[tnu]

The one thing that disturbs me about the idea of defaulting is. What is the state using as collateral?

[nilecroc]

The one thing that disturbs me about the idea of defaulting is. What is the state using as collateral?

Us.

[dallen68]

Us.

Technically, our children. Well, your children. And grandchildren. Something like that. We're spending money from 20-30 years from now, at this point.

[nilecroc]

Technically, our children. Well, your children. And grandchildren. Something like that. We're spending money from 20-30 years from now, at this point.

We are not. The government is.

[Skm1091]

Here is a good video on the Broken Window Fallacy

[yt]gG3AKoL0vEs[/yt]

[dallen68]

We are not. The government is.

That's what I meant. Please don't poke the alligator.

[dallen68]

Here is a good video on the Broken Window Fallacy

[yt]gG3AKoL0vEs[/yt]

So, according to this video (if I understood it right) failure to take into account things you couldn't have possibly known, or that are uncertain over things that you do know and are for sure is a fallacy? If that's the case, I'm declaring the fallacy itself a fallacy.

[MrBogosity]

So, according to this video (if I understood it right) failure to take into account things you couldn't have possibly known, or that are uncertain over things that you do know and are for sure is a fallacy? If that's the case, I'm declaring the fallacy itself a fallacy.

But you DO know that the money has to come from SOMEWHERE. That's all that's required. People pretend like this comes out of nowhere with no other expense anywhere, and THAT is the fallacy.

[dallen68]

But you DO know that the money has to come from SOMEWHERE. That's all that's required. People pretend like this comes out of nowhere with no other expense anywhere, and THAT is the fallacy.

So a broken window fallacy is like a vacuum fallacy except you're talking about economics instead of  resource management? (To stick to the parable, the baker now has to spend his time repairing the window instead of making bread.)

[Travis Retriever]

https://mises.org/books/economics_in_one_lesson_hazlitt.pdf

[MrBogosity]

And to go back to the source: http://www.econlib.org/library/Bastiat/basEss1.html

[MrBogosity]

Apparently Rand Paul just broke out the Bastiat on the Senate floor, reading out parts of this same essay during Senator Cruz's filibuster.