Common Excuses People make for Obama (and rebuttals)

[Skm1091]

1. Republicans stopped him

What about the time when the democrats had the majority in the senate and filibuster majority in the house if you include two independents that vote democrat?

2.Court stopped him

What stopped him from passing the TSA expansion through execute order

3. He reduced spending


When they say that he shrunk the deficit 1.4 trillion to 642 billion or whatever, I suspect they took out a lot of things in metric. Remember the CPI index that does not even have food or gas prices? Does any one know the specifics?

4. He is ending wars

We still have PMCs in Iraq (correct me if I am wrong here). Obama has increased the drone attacks in the mid east. He has sent Marines and Warships to Libya (which he made a no fly zone over without congressional approval) He also increased the number of troops in Afghanistan when the democrats controlled congress(not so sure of their status today). He also sent "advisors" to Uganda. Can any remember Vietnam?

5. Civil Liberties

NDAA anyone? Gitmo?

6. Even tho he is commander and chief he still have to go to a committee

I heard this argument that even though he is commander and chief he still has to get approval from a committee. Any rebuttals? what is the point of being Commander and Chief then?

[BlameThe1st]

Here's an argument that I hear quite often, especially in light of the recent scandals:

"So what if Obama allowed the IRS to target conservative groups? Bush targeted liberal groups, and he was clearly worse!"

It doesn't matter what Obama did in relation to Bush. No president should have the power to target opposing political groups! No president should have the power to seize journalist phone records! No president should cover up evidence concerning terrorist attacks! No president should have that amount of power period! Stop trying to deflect Obama's wrongdoings with Bush's!

[Lord T Hawkeye]

The endless comparison fallacies get my goat.  It's just saying "He's not as shit as he could be."

Ooh!  Hurray for Captain Ambitious over here!

[Skm1091]

The endless comparison fallacies get my goat.  It's just saying "He's not as shit as he could be."

Ooh!  Hurray for Captain Ambitious over here!

It's similar to people hatting on Hitler but defending Mao's atrocities. Or Christians defending their atrocities and bashing on another religious/non religious group.

A good example would be Clinton's sanctions killing half a million kids and then Obama supporters saying that at least he did not send troops. This like saying this person is better because he poisoned someone instead of going up to them and shooting them. ITS STILL MURDER.

[MrBogosity]

the democrats had the majority in the senate and filibuster majority in the house

Other way around.

[dallen68]

AFIK, the President does not need congressional approval to declare a no fly zone. (The rest of the world doesn't have to respect it, either)

The President can send troops where he wants to with no committee involvement (although consulting with the joint chiefs of staff is generally considered a good idea). The only thing(s) congress (or any committee thereof) are/is required for is declaring war, and declaring the war over.

I'm not sure what a PMC is, but in theory we are in the process of withdrawing from Iraq.

[Travis Retriever]

AFIK, the President does not need congressional approval to declare a no fly zone. (The rest of the world doesn't have to respect it, either)

The President can send troops where he wants to with no committee involvement (although consulting with the joint chiefs of staff is generally considered a good idea). The only thing(s) congress (or any committee thereof) are/is required for is declaring war, and declaring the war over.

I'm not sure what a PMC is, but in theory we are in the process of withdrawing from Iraq.

PMC = Private Military Contractor.  If I recall correctly.

[Skm1091]

Other way around.

thank u for the correction.

[Travis Retriever]

The most common excuse I've heard--though a bit less now that it's been about 5+ years--is that it's Bush's fault that he inherited the bad stuff we don't like from him, etc.  You know, despite the fact that a recession/depression should only take about 1 1/2 to 2 years at MOST to run its course, and that he's gone out of his way to continue, even expand on Bush's policies.
Republican Congress?  Bollocks.  He's had no issues using executive privilege to start even MORE wars without congress's approval, keep Guantanamo Bay open, etc.

[Travis Retriever]

1. Republicans stopped him

What about the time when the democrats had the majority in the senate and filibuster majority in the house if you include two independents that vote democrat?

See my above post.

2.Court stopped him

What stopped him from passing the TSA expansion through execute order

Hand-waving on the statist's part.  Ask them to name an example and back it up.  Also, what you said on this and on 1 applies too AND what I said in my above post, imho.  Same logic, really.

3. He reduced spending


When they say that he shrunk the deficit 1.4 trillion to 642 billion or whatever, I suspect they took out a lot of things in metric. Remember the CPI index that does not even have food or gas prices? Does any one know the specifics?

He's done nothing but increase the debt AND the deficit each year in office.  Actions over words as they say.

4. He is ending wars

We still have PMCs in Iraq (correct me if I am wrong here). Obama has increased the drone attacks in the mid east. He has sent Marines and Warships to Libya (which he made a no fly zone over without congressional approval) He also increased the number of troops in Afghanistan when the democrats controlled congress(not so sure of their status today). He also sent "advisors" to Uganda. Can any remember Vietnam?

Libya?  Or any of the other wars he started or places he sends troops?  Really, if he were truly ending this shit he's been doing a terrible job doing so.

5. Civil Liberties

NDAA anyone? Gitmo?

Or his promises of allowing gay marriage, dumping that as he got into office and aliening his entire LGBT base.

6. Even tho he is commander and chief he still have to go to a committee

I heard this argument that even though he is commander and chief he still has to get approval from a committee. Any rebuttals? what is the point of being Commander and Chief then?

Bullshit.  Did Bush need approval from a committee when he used executive privilege to start his wars?  Ask them to back that shit up--no handwaving.

[Skm1091]

See my above post.
Hand-waving on the statist's part.  Ask them to name an example and back it up.  Also, what you said on this and on 1 applies too AND what I said in my above post, imho.  Same logic, really.
He's done nothing but increase the debt AND the deficit each year in office.  Actions over words as they say.
Libya?  Or any of the other wars he started or places he sends troops?  Really, if he were truly ending this shit he's been doing a terrible job doing so.
Or his promises of allowing gay marriage, dumping that as he got into office and aliening his entire LGBT base.
Bullshit.  Did Bush need approval from a committee when he used executive privilege to start his wars?  Ask them to back that shit up--no handwaving.

*applause*

[Skm1091]

Another common excuse

Even if the drones kill children, They also kill the terrorists They might be guilty. They also say its just war

My response: The US has not declared war since ww2. Let's say if the military bombed a building in Manhattan to kill a couple dozen terrorists but kills and wounds hundreds of civilians in the process, it would be okay and the all those people might be guilty? Oh course the fuck not! We would be outraged! But your are arguing it is perfectly fine as long as they are not US?! This also shows a complete double standard on what group of people are considered valuable and what group is worthless.

[tnu]

Another common excuse

Even if the drones kill children, They also kill the terrorists They might be guilty. They also say its just war

My response: The US has not declared war since ww2. Let's say if the military bombed a building in Manhattan to kill a couple dozen terrorists but kills and wounds hundreds of civilians in the process, it would be okay and the all those people might be guilty? Oh course the fuck not! We would be outraged! But your are arguing it is perfectly fine as long as they are not US?! This also shows a complete double standard on what group of people are considered valuable and what group is worthless.

It's JUST WAR?! JUST WAR!? I'm  soryr but anybody who makes the excuse hat "It's OK it's jsut war."  is a fuckingpsychopath

[Travis Retriever]

It's JUST WAR?! JUST WAR!? I'm  sorry but anybody who makes the excuse that "It's OK it's just war."  is a fucking psychopath.

Indeed.  By their logic, the Holocaust was perfectly moral and okay because it was "just war."

[Skm1091]

Indeed.  By their logic, the Holocaust was perfectly moral and okay because it was "just war."

It's JUST WAR?! JUST WAR!? I'm  soryr but anybody who makes the excuse hat "It's OK it's jsut war."  is a fuckingpsychopath

Oh Trust me U 2, It takes every fiber of my being just for me to not go up and kick the living shit out of the SOBs who uses this argument.