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Another annoying socialist

Started by Travis Retriever, May 02, 2009, 04:03:25 PM

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May 02, 2009, 04:03:25 PM Last Edit: May 02, 2009, 05:00:54 PM by surhotchaperchlorome
On this video: http://www.youtube.com/comment_servlet?all_comments&v=Z74Akf1WUbU&fromurl=/watch%3Fv%3DZ74Akf1WUbU
He goes by the name of infinit888 and seems to think that personal experience/anecdotal evidence trumps empirical data.

infinit888: "the USA's poor are as well of as Europe's middle class!"
My parents are middle class. So you're saying that the poor in America have their own house (paid off) , 2 cars (paid off), health care, vacations and can pay their son to go to college. Right maybe in fairytale land.

Me: I cited sources and evidence for my claims.
Get over it.

infinit888:   "I cited sources and evidence for my claims."
Sorry I was addressing a specific claim made by you. Namely
"the USA's poor are as well of as Europe's middle class!"
Nowhere in the video posted by shanedk does he present any 'evidence' or 'sources' to back up that statement.
My evidence (albeit not directly verifiable by you) falsifies your claim.

Me:  "Sorry I was addressing a specific claim made by you. Namely"
Irrelevant. Personal experience doesn't trump empirical data.
"Nowhere in the video posted by shanedk does he present any 'evidence' or 'sources' to back up that statement."
I gave other sources: "The Swedish Myth Debunked".

infinit88:  "Personal experience" - Oh so you're telling me that the economic situation of my parents which can be objectively quantified (empirically) is 'personal experience'. Come on now really? Did you just make that argument?
"I gave other sources:" - Looked at it and A) it makes no mention of what you've said and B) the data used is from the 1990 so it isn't really up to date anymore.
Further realize that not all Europeans live in Sweden.

Me:  "Oh so you're telling me that the economic situation of my parents which can be objectively quantified (empirically) is 'personal experience'. Come on now really? Did you just make that argument?"
It's called anecdotal evidence.
It doesn't count in a debate. Deal with it.
"Looked at it and A) it makes no mention of what you've said"
Which claim are you talking about?
"Further realize that not all Europeans live in Sweden. "
Irrelavent.
They still have the socialism.

infinit88: "It's called anecdotal evidence." - Yeah in the same sense like me telling you that GFP emits light at 509 nm is anecdotal evidence. What you are trying to say is that you think I'm lying or delusional. Fair enough but then be a man and come out and say it.
"Which claim are you talking about?" - Try to keep up. Need me to quote you a third time?
"Irrelavent." - No, completely relevant. You were talking about Europeans not Swedes.

Me:  "Yeah in the same sense like me telling you that GFP emits light at 509 nm is anecdotal evidence. What you are trying to say is that you think I'm lying or delusional. Fair enough but then be a man and come out and say it."
*facepalm* Personal experience, and the observation of ONE family doesn't mean that all of Europe is that.
"Try to keep up. Need me to quote you a third time?"
Calm down.
You mean the claim about Europe?
You still haven't debunked it.

"No, completely relevant. You were talking about Europeans not Swede"
Sweden is IN Europe.

Look at what the people in Europe have (e.g. land per capita, number of TV's a household, disposable income (listed in the video), etc).
The USA trumps Europe in most (if not all) of these respects.

infinit888:  "No, completely relevant. You were talking about Europeans not Swede"
Sweden is IN Europe."
No shit sherlock but not all Europeans are Swedes.

"*facepalm* Personal experience, and the observation of ONE family doesn't mean that all of Europe is that."
I've never made that claim. Again you said:
"the USA's poor are as well of as Europe's middle class" (USA's poor = Europe's middle class)
So for me to debunk that statement all I need is 1 middle class European which doesn't fall into the category you define as 'poor' Americans. (USA's poor =/= Europe's middle class)

Me:  "So for me to debunk that statement all I need is 1 middle class European which doesn't fall into the category you define as 'poor' Americans. (USA's poor =/= Europe's middle class)"
No it doesn't.
You haven't provided ANY hard evidence.
That's not hard evidence, can you verify it with a source?
God...

"No shit sherlock but not all Europeans are Swedes."
I never said they were, you socialist cocksucker.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

OK, so it looks like I'll need another resource besides "The Swedish Myth Debunked" to help my claims that Europe's middle class are around as well off as the poor in the USA.

Any volunteers?

Any help would really be appreciated....
"When the mob and the press and the whole world tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth, and tell the whole world—'No. You move.'"
-Captain America, Amazing Spider-Man 537
May 02, 2009, 05:13:40 PM #1
He seems to think that because he just says the he's seem a single family that my claim of "Europe's middle class is less off in terms of material wealth than the USA's poor" is therefore debunked.
I'll admit that was a fairly absolutist statement on my part, but even so, one example in one country doesn't mean that everyone else in all of Europe is well off, nor does it mean that his claim constitutes hard evidence.
Like dealing with a creationist, I swear.
"When the mob and the press and the whole world tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth, and tell the whole world—'No. You move.'"
-Captain America, Amazing Spider-Man 537
May 02, 2009, 07:01:08 PM #2
Him: According to the U.S Census Bureau People families are classified as being in poverty if their income is less than their poverty threshold which in 2005 for a single person was 9,973 $/year

According to the Bundesamt für Statistik in Switzerland the monthly median house hold income in 2005 for a single person was above 6000 CHF/month = 72000 CHF/year which back then was like 57600 $/year.

So the statement "the USA's poor are as well of as Europe's middle class" is wrong.

Does this mean the statement you and I made about this was wrong?
"When the mob and the press and the whole world tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth, and tell the whole world—'No. You move.'"
-Captain America, Amazing Spider-Man 537
May 02, 2009, 07:18:58 PM #3
No; income is not a good metric of how well off people are doing. It's how much they're able to accumulate. Look at the sources again: it's all about what people have--cars, refrigerators, square feet of living space per person, etc. Actual objective metrics.
May 02, 2009, 07:38:10 PM #4
You mean the source he provided?
If not, where can I find this information?
"When the mob and the press and the whole world tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth, and tell the whole world—'No. You move.'"
-Captain America, Amazing Spider-Man 537
May 02, 2009, 09:01:17 PM #5
No, the sources I used from Robert Rector.
May 02, 2009, 09:59:19 PM #6
I never saw the sources you used. ^^;
What were they?
"When the mob and the press and the whole world tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth, and tell the whole world—'No. You move.'"
-Captain America, Amazing Spider-Man 537
May 02, 2009, 10:01:55 PM #7
I'll have to dig them up again...let me get to it tomorrow.
May 02, 2009, 11:23:57 PM #8
OK.
Thanks, Shane.
"When the mob and the press and the whole world tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth, and tell the whole world—'No. You move.'"
-Captain America, Amazing Spider-Man 537
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