Positive and Negative Arguments/Positions

[tnu]

This has been something bothering me for a while. Many times, when I maked an argument. People tend to accuse my argument or position of being "negative" or demand a "positive" argument from me. I'm not well versed in  what these terms mean in that context or how they are used. Would anybody in the community mind educating me in this area to help me have a better grasp of  what they are tyring to argue with these statements?

[MrBogosity]

They aren't. It's a way of avoiding the argument, not a response to it.

[tnu]

They aren't. It's a way of avoiding the argument, not a response to it.

So what's the best way to counter it when people go in to "positives" and "negatives" in the context? and i'D IDEALLY SITLL LIKE TO KNOW WHAT THEY ACTUALLY MEAN.

[MrBogosity]

"Positive" is based on the word "posit." The person making the positive argument is the one positing the claim, so the burden of proof is on him.

"Negative" is based on the word "negate." Someone refuting the positive argument works to negate it. He does not have the burden of proof, all he has to do is point out the problems with the positive argument.

As for what they're trying to do, it all depends on the context, but they may be trying to shift the burden of proof on to you, or otherwise avoiding the problems with their arguments that you've pointed out.

[tnu]

Of course. WHy didn't I think to look at the etymology. Honeslty it seems arrogant to posit in general. "The lady doth protest too much, methinks." - Hamlet. Act III, Scene II.

[MrBogosity]

Well, whoever is the claimant in an argument is positing the argument; it's not an arrogant thing at all. Any time you make a claim, that's what you're doing.

(And please don't get me started on that Hamlet misquote...)

[tnu]

Well, whoever is the claimant in an argument is positing the argument; it's not an arrogant thing at all. Any time you make a claim, that's what you're doing.

(And please don't get me started on that Hamlet misquote...)

oH did I quote it worng? I oculd have sworn I got it right. Huh. Never kenw you were a theater fan.

[MrBogosity]

oH did I quote it worng? I oculd have sworn I got it right. Huh. Never kenw you were a theater fan.

You quoted the words right, but people never understand the context of it. They think it means she complains too much, therefore, what people are accusing her of must be correct. Not even close.

The line is said by Queen Gertrude, in the Play Within A Play. In it, the actress (the Gertrude archetype Hamlet has said up) professes (or, as they would say at the time, protests: "the Queen embracing him, and he her.  She kneels, and makes show of protestation unto him") her loyalty to her husband ("Both here and hence pursue me lasting strife, if, once a widow, ever I be wife!"). Hamlet asks Gertrude what she thinks of the play, and she says this line, to mean that the lady shouldn't swear such loyalty (she herself having become married to Hamlet's uncle only two months after her husband, Hamlet's father, died).

Hamlet's response is, "O! But she'll keep her word."

[tnu]

Oh. I know what it means. TO protest, ot affirm. that's kidn of wqhat I was oging for. in essence to be wary of those who posit rather then negate.

[MrBogosity]

Oh. I know what it means. TO protest, ot affirm. that's kidn of wqhat I was oging for. in essence to be wary of those who posit rather then negate.

But again, everyone does these things. Your warning itself--to be wary of those who posit--is itself an act of positing.

[tnu]

But again, everyone does these things. Your warning itself--to be wary of those who posit--is itself an act of positing.

I suppose you have a point.

[MrBogosity]

Positive and negative are not value judgements. They simply delineate who's taking which side in the debate.